Silly (but important) question

Hi everyone,

It's my first post here and englich is not my primary language so thank you for your in advance for your patience.

I'm reading Ars Magica books for some time now as i'm preparing a Saga and i'm trying to get familiar with the system. My biggest challenge is the interpretation of spells effects and the virtues. I've looked around some trend but my question is so basic i'm affraid it's not even tread-related(as far as i can see).

Ok, here it comes.

According to spell duration (Durations in ARM5 pg. 112) multiple examples are given of effects that last for a certain moment, a fire during two minutes, a wound heal for a sun duration (that reopen after the end of the spell) etc. My question is: if a player of mine cast the spell bridge of wood R:Toutch D: Sun T:Ind (ARM5 pg.135) is the spell is gonna collapse after a day? How can a magus make the effect permanent? As i understand it a spell like Conjuring the mystic tower (ARM5 pg.153) is permanent because the creation of the tower is momentarly(the reconfiguration of the stone) but the stone stay that way.

My second question: On page 92 of the core rulebook under faierie magic it's written "Character initiated into Faerie Magic are attuned to both Magical and Faerie auras, and so gain warping points from neither." Is that true? Is that me or i tought that Merinita magi use to accumulate a lot of warping pts?

Thanks for your answers!

I really appreciate this forum. If my questions are already answered somewhere else, thanks for pointing me the appropriate tread.

As one foreigner to another: welcome! :slight_smile:

Since the bridge of woord spell is of duration Sun, the created material (the bridge) will fade into nothingness when the duration is spent (at sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first), as you say. Conjuring the mystic tower has a momentary duration, which would normally mean the created tower would appear and then disappear within a few seconds. Since it is a Ritual Creo spell with Momentary duration, however, it falls under the exception: Ritual Creo spells with Momentary duration can creature natural things (such as rock) that remain permanently, just like any other natural thing of their nature (stone). Note that the creation of the tower is now no longer momentary, and that the stone isn't reconfigured by the spell but rather created out of nothing (well, out of the raw vis). Rego spells reconfigure things and the things stay reconfigured, Creo spells just create things (and the things may stay created, with Momentary Rituals).

If your magus wants to create a permanent bridge, he can invent a Ritual version of bridge of wood with a Momentary duration, which would create a permanent bridge.

The rules of ArM are generally true in ArM :slight_smile: Yes, it is true. Merinitia magi may or may not typically accumulate a lot of Warping Points in your saga, but cannon does not hint that they do. If you wish them to, then being influenced often by powerful Faerie effects might lead to such an accumulation.

Hi Bellysarius,

Welcome to you forum! It is always great to greet new people and even greater to hear of new people starting on Ars Magica.

And you dont have to excuse either language or questions - This is mostly a very friendly forum. Also most of us has had to pratice our English by writing here, leaning a long the way, as we are many who are not from English speaking countries.

Concerning spell duration. Some of your examples are Creo-magic and the magic of creating something is in many ways different from other kinds of magic. The magi of the Order of Hermes, by using magic resting on the theory developed by Bonisagus, cannot create something permanent with ordinary spells. When the duration is over - not matter if it is Momentary (approximately one round) Diameter, Sun etc) - it disappears. Whether you describe this disapperance as a flash, turning to dust, dissolving is entirely op to you (I usually relate it to the Sigil of the caster) but it disappears entirely. I reckon this is a cap put on creation -magic to narrow the ressources of magi - face it limitless ressources do not create many plots and intrigues - and it is explained ingame as a "restriction" based on the divine creation of the world, or simply as a flaw in Banisagus' theory....

Nevertheless there is one way to create something permanent! By using Vis and doing the magic as a ritual - requiring time and the vis mentioned. If you do that, then a Mom Creo spell creates something permanet. Moreso this creation is now non-magical - meaning that it can be manipulated by magic and destroyed by Perdo as any other mundane object but it is not in existence because of magic so say a PerdoVim spell couldnt destroy it by "dispelling" it.

On a sidenote - since healing is Creo-magic, arguing that healiing is making something more whole or perfect, it follows the same rules of requiring vis and a Ritual spell to make it permanent. And moreso putting non-permanent healing on a person - say using a duration Sun or Moon spell - stops the persons natural healing and thus prolongs the time it takes for him to get better.

The above all goes for Creo-magic. You cannot create permanent effects by doing duration Momentary rituals with other kinds of magic.

As a sidenote there is one other way to create something more or less permanent - it is tricky and fragile but the stuff stories can be told about - by using a Duration Ring and making a sturdy physical ring around the thing created.

Well - this one is a bit harder for me to answer (Merinitae not yet being very present in my saga). I think the explanation is that they get Warping from Botching magic as all magi do and that this isn't what the text on p. 92 refers to. Instead this refers to two other issues:
a) every being who lives in a strong aura of any of the 4 mythic powers for a longer period of time starts to warp and take on the qualities of the aura. This is described on p. 167. One of the exeptions are as an example the Hermetic magi, as the wield the powers of the Magic Realm, who doesnt take this kind of warping (oooh, but their grogs certainly does!!). The same then goes for initiates of Merinitae concerning Faerie auras - the can settle there without getting Warping simply by being there.
b) On this I'm more uncertain - but if I'm wrong I'm certain more enlightened sodales will help us out - but I guess the same goes for the added botch petential when rolling a '0' in a mythical aura unlike the Magical. Usually a magi would have to roll extra botch die equally the strength of the local non-magical aura, but this is where I think Faerie initiated might not have do that either in Magic or Faerie auras.

I hope this has brought you more help than undue confusion!

Furion - you are correct. Merinita magi do not get additional botch dice from Magic nor Faerie auras. Holy magi and Infernalists would treat Divine and Infernal auras (respectively! :unamused: ) in the same way.

As an aside, Merinita who begin to initiate their House Mysteries gain an Ability that makes their picking up Warping Points more likely as they do more faerie things in the lab.

Thanks for the confirming feed-back Fruny. Nice to know I wasn't off the track after all. :smiley:

Thanks for all your answers.

I think i just read too much Ars Magica stuff over a short time so i mixed up some things. In HoH:MC, in the Merinita chapter under Becoming i've read that some Merinita voluntarly gain wraping point to facilitate the transformation of the body... I think that's why i tought that every single merinita magus rack warping point pretty fast. Obviously i was wrong.

So for any creo spell to create something permanently you need a ritualized spell + the expenditure of some vis (1 pawn per magnitude whilw casting your ritual spell). I was just about to launch a Low-Vis saga (wich is gonna be hard on the PC to create durable enchantement and items). So maybe i'm gonna give more vis source (or even better, starting low-vis and gradually integrate more vis source during play, as the characters explore the surrounding of the covenant).

Thanks again for your answers.


Just to be sure that it's clear. All ritual spells require this much vis. It is the nature of ritual spells.

You're most welcome. :slight_smile:

Regarding raw vis amounts, try to resist the temptation to hand out long-term vis sources initially. Try, instead, to come up with sources that will only be temporary or one-time, and only a few low-output eternal sources. You can always add more permament vis sources later on, when you get a better feel for the amount of raw vis you want in the saga.


Not necessarily; I imagine some Merinitae do try to accumulate a lot of Warping Points, and those who do a lot of lab work are likely to experiment a great deal (because Faerie Magic rewards it), which also leads to more Warping.