# Size of Mythic Europe in paces/Boundaries

Does anyone know the number of paces (and by extension the number of size increments in a Boundary) that would be needed to cover Europe?

It's much easier to convert to square miles, and then calculate it.

A maximum boundary is 7,850 square paces, or .00253422 square miles (assumes a pace is a yard).
Each increase in size multiplies the area by 10.
If you set the area of Mythic Europe at 5 million square miles (current EU is about 4 million square miles), I have no idea how close the estimate is, but it's probably within an order of magnitude, even if you include the Mediterranean, which adds 965,000 mi[sup]2[/sup], it's still about 6 million mi[sup]2[/sup].
To get to 5 million mi[sup]2[/sup] you'd need to add 10 increases for size. The math: 0.00253422 mi[sup]2[/sup] x10[sup]10[/sup]=25,342,000 mi[sup]2[/sup]

Don't botch.

Thanks. My algebra's still a little rusty.

Looks like I won't be able to give a single Daimon a Presence to cover all of Mythic Europe in a Magical Aura 5. Oh well, covering an entire country with that is still a ridiculous enough project even for a magus.

Except that Europe as we think of it does not have clear boundaries. Not a single set of them, at least.

You have the coastline in some places, rivers in others, mountain ranges in others.

The range's description says that it must be "a well-defined natural or man-made boundary." Personally, I don't think Europe would qualify for that.

The island that includes England, Scotland and Wales? Sure, they share a common coastline. Same is true for Ireland, Corsica, Sardinia and other islands.

But Europe and all of its countries do not have such well-defined boundaries. How would you decide where a spell's effect would stop?

You'd use the massive ringwall spells in Transforming Mythic Europe?

Europe is bounded by the ocean/seas and Faerie (Marco Polo doesn't go to Mythic Cathay, he goes to Faerie). I think magi understand that if they go far enough to the east or south, they go into faerie. So, there's a well-defined boundary somewhere, and of course, there's the seas which are also well defined.

Europe doesn't, but I would imagine that "Mythic Europe" is a definite thing and thus has a boundary. (If not, then I'd "mark" a bound using the Volga River.)

Traditionally, Europe goes east until the Ural Mountains. But that's only really relevant in a very limited area, neh?

Correct, which is why I didn't use the Urals.

The Volga riverbed is the furthest East that I can find that provides a clean cut. I know there's an extension that goes to the Baltic, not sure that there is one that reaches the Arctic; if I want to do that I'd probably have to exclude Scandinavia and much of the Novgorod Tribunal.

Also playing the devil's advocate. Having to "go far enough east" is not a well-defined boundary to me. 8)

Of course, you can decide that your Mythic Europe have such a boundary. But, to me, the is no such thing as a well-defined boundary. Your example, the Volga River, does not cross Europe so it would not qualify IMHO.

At some point you cross into faerie. Magi may not know where that is, but they know it is true... It's well defined, just not well understood.

That's like saying "keep walking north from Boston and at some point you'll cross into Canada". It might be true, but that doesn't mean the boundary is well-defined physically.

But the level of definition needed to qualify for a Boundary is clearly a saga-specific thing. I just wanted it clear that a storyguide is perfectly justified if he wants to say "No, you can't affect Europe with a single Boundary spell." 8)

There is an extension of it that connects to modern St. Petersburg (don't know what that river's called) on the Baltic, and the other end is on the Black Sea. That's one edge of the Boundary; the rest of Continental Europe is bounded by the Baltic, Atlantic and Mediterranean.

You are referring to the Moskva River. It is linked to the Volga River by way of the Moscow Canal. Problem is, the canal was only built in 1932 to 1937. It is also 128 km long -- no small distance.

So, in period, that boundary simply does not exist.

I stand educated. Back to looking for another cheat

What about Ouroborous, the World Serpent? Isn't he a good, albeit larger, boundary?

Yeah, I wouldn't allow Europe to be counted as a bounded region for a Boundary spell. I may, however, allow Magical creatures to affect an unbounded region, allowing them a "non-standard" Ranges.

Even a kingdom rarely as well-defined borders that can allow it to be affected as a Boundary. Despite what lines map-makers may draw in later times.

A line on a map isn't necessarily a well defined physical boundary that exists...

This is a good point. A Magic Spirit using Presence may just define his Presence as, say, the boundaries of a kingdom (though only a protogonos-level spirit would probably be able to make a boundary that big), especially if this Daimon is its patron god or god-king (with serious risk of Divine smiting for doing something like that in this age!). Fuzziness of the boundaries can be dealt with by reducing the Aura.

There is a defined boundary in mythic europe. "The order of Hermes"

Each tribunal has delineated borders no more fuzzy than a country. Each is a part of the whole that makes up the Order.

Somehow, I don't think Mythic Europeans talk about living in Mythic Europe, which exists for us and not for them, along with botch dice. I'm not even sure they speak of Europe.

Christendom, otoh, does exist. If Plato is right, it exists perfectly in the realm of Forms. There is probably a spirit of some kind, an angel or even a daimon, associated with it. Maybe even both. Faerie pretenders too, if the topic gets hot.