So Fading Magic But Just the Opposite

So once upon a time many years and a couple of editions ago Magic was going away. Auras where fading. Vis sources where drying up. Magical beings where disappearing. And, I guess, fewer and fewer children where being born gifted. Also there was that whole Aura of Reason thing :unamused: . Though I admit the idea of Fading Magic could and did make for some interesting games I'm glad it is no longer an assumed part of the setting.

So we sorta know what happens when Magi rage against the dying of the light. Mad grabs for resources, Machiavellian politics, Code interpretations that make it risky to get out of bed, Demons everywhere, Magi becoming Vampires an outright descent into a World of Darkness[sub][size=50]TM[/size][/sub]. So What If[sub][size=50]TM[/size][/sub] Mythic Europe started going in a different direction?

So lets say...
Magic Auras start growing in area, strength, and quantity. Often encroaching on and overwhelming the auras of other realms.

Vis becomes less scarce and even abundent as established sources increase and new sources pop into existence.

Beings with magical might grow a bit stronger on average and much more common.

The gift and most minor magical powers start to express much more often.

How do you think such changes would affect the Order? Or Mythic Europe in general for that matter.

...I think the population centers will become even more devote in the piety than they were before. With more strange magical creatures in the wild, more encounters with 'unnatural' things, they will cling to the only protector they have.
As Magic rises in the wild; the Dominion will follow.

This is actually touched on in the Core book, and it asks an important question that I'll ask here: is it just Magic that's getting more powerful, or all the Realms?

Ah, the good old days... life as a wizard was more interesting then. But seriously, look up the book Transforming Mythic Europe, that should give you some idea of what life would be like.

A related question- the 13th century saw a lot of religious upheaval- Catholics versus Muslims, Catholics versus Jews (1234 Gregory IX issued an edict declaring the jews in servitude to Christians until judgment day), Catholics versus Irish monastic Christians, Catholics versus heretics, Fredrick II versus the papacy...

sidestepping the huge pile of potential conversation bombs I just laid down as examples of religious turmoil- what would happen to mythic Europe if dominion auras began to fade, either across the board or only catholic auras...

Two quite different situations. I think the direction I was going is just a boost in the (big M) Magic Realm. Mostly because it's fun to think about how a growing Magic Realm would effects the other Realms. I think if your looking at a rising tide raises all ships the relationships between all the (small m) magical realms stay pretty stable.

Yes I can see that. But also remember that if magical auras start growing and strengthening that will begin to supersede other Auras even Dominion Auras. And Dominion auras are a sort of positive feedback loop. In Mythic Europe all Dominion aura's are palapable. The Pious feel a peaceful reassurance while others feel uncomfortable and guilty. Being in a Dominion aura encourages piety lots of pious people in an aura make it stronger. Stronger aura stronger feelings more piety lather rinse repeat. How much is the growth and practice of the Mythic versions of Monotheism influenced by the carrot and stick emotional effects of Dominion Auras. Would the religions suffer if there followers weren't constantly being subjected to a subtle form of classic conditioning.

Dominion auras arise from human worship of God, so even if mythic Europe's history follows real history, things like the Reformation won't really change that.

Currently Ars Magica has set up an interesting series of circumstances. The Faerie gods trounced the Magic titans, then Christ's appearance began the slow decay of the Faerie power-base. Which should lead to the decay of the bindings the fey put on the Magic titans. But faeries are pretty adaptable in finding ways to harvest human vitality, so while their time as gods comes to a close, they'll stay a part of the supernatural food chain no matter what. If/when the titans are finally released, they'll face the same problems the faerie gods did (the Divine is more powerful and no longer willing to let them run amok), but they're still just as powerful as they once were, because they don't need humanity for power.

Let me bust out my Timetables of History for 'fun stuff' soon to happen:

1223: Mongols invade Russia
1227: Ghengis Khan dies, his sons take over.
1229: The inquisition of Tolouse forbids Bible reading by laymen. Infernal plot?
1230: Leprosy imported to Europe by crusaders. In Ars Magica, Leprosy is a divine punishment, so obviously there is a significant displeasure with Europe at this point. Coincidence that this follows the previous year's announcement? This could stand as a turning point for the power of Dominion auras.
1233: Pope trusts the Dominicans with the Inquisition.
1237: Mongols take Moscow, conquering Russia (14 years after the invasion!), though full control takes until 1240. This probably increases reduced Dominion Auras in favor of Faerie ones.
1241: Mongols invade Poland and Hungary, Ughetai dies and they withdraw from Europe. Divine deliverance? Intervention by the Order of Hermes?
1249: Roger Bacon records the existence of explosives. These were probably imported from Asia at the time. The Sundered Eagle has rules for natural magicians mass producing Greek Fire, I assume that the Asian ones managed a similar process.
1252: Inquisition starts using torture devices. Yeah, probably an Infernal plot. This means the Dominicans got corrupted.
1256: Start of the Hundred Years war between Venice and Genoa.
1258: Mongols take Baghdad.
1260: Flagellant movements in Germany and Italy.
1268: No pope for 3 years (until 1271). What does this do for Catholic Dominion Auras?
1276: Four popes in ONE year. IOW, popes dying like flies. Obviously they have no Divine protection (following popes only last a few years each, though that might be business as usual, as only old guys get to be pope).
1278: 278 Jews in London hanged for coin clipping (Christians guilty of same get fines). All kinds of Infernal greed here (and unfairness).
1284: Pied Piper of Hamlin(!). Magus, Faerie or Infernal?
1300: Pope Boniface VIII declares a Year of Jubliee. This boosts tourism in Rome, a lot, but could be seen as a crass move to make the Church a lot of money, and it fueled Boniface's ambitions and the 1302 Papal Bull "Unam sanctam" declaration of papal supremacy.
Temporary end of European slave trade.
1303: Boniface fights with Philip IV and dies a prisoner in the Vatican.
1309: Papal seat moves to Avignon.
1313: German friar 'invents' gunpowder (i.e. figures out how the Chinese have been doing it)
1314: Grand Master of the Templars burned a the stake in Paris for alleged heresy. Infernal plot, but on which side (or both)? Coincides with a 2 year papal vacancy.

So a lot of bad stuff is coming for the Church in Europe. The Bubonic Plague won't start until 1332 (in India) and starts devastating Europe by 1347. All the dying will reduce Dominion auras (less worshipers) and that may finally trigger a resurgence of the Magic Realm as entire areas return to the wild.

What about when the church places Jerusalem under divine interdiction following the 6th crusade? It would seem to me that should cause some degree or another of problems. Or when Fredrick II casts a couple of holy orders out of Germany and declares war on the pope? Or when a couple of ministers (sorry I am not looking this up right now, I am pressed for time) declare that the appoclypse will happen in 1260 when Fredrick II will conquer the papal states and redistribute the churh's wealth to the poor, "the only true Christians" (according to these 'prophets')

Hi,

If magic is increasing, it's a matter of public safety. If I play a Beatles album backward, I hear a Satanic message. But if I misread the Bible and accidentally pronounce one of the secret Keys of Creation, I can wreak all sorts of havoc.

Hmm. Leprosy existed in Europe before 123.

Or magic or infernal, depending on what kind of Mongols a saga has. In real history, the Mongols were very happy to encourage Russian Orthodox Christianity, so maybe the Dominion does just fine.

Ah, Templars. Maybe they deserve an Aura classification of their very own! :slight_smile:

Anyway,

Ken

I think it would be interesting to discuss the possibilities of what would happen if the power of the Magic Realm grew in strength but the others remained the same.

One of the things that I think that needs to be mentioned is that the Divine Aura isn't necessary the same thing as God, that the Creator is as much part of all four realms (or his absence in the sense of the Infernal). That just because the Divine aura isn't as strong or dominant as it once was doesn't mean that from a metaphysical spiritual standpoint that God himself lost his authority.

Basically an idea could be that in olden times it was Faerie that was dominant, and that kind of caused problems. So Faerie faded in power and the Divine grew in power, with the Infernal also correspondingly getting some influence. Now its Magic's turn to be a major force in the world. This could lead to the idea of cycles, or it could just lead to the idea that if Magic does better than the others than it might actually be sustained for a really long time.

All in all its an interesting idea I think.

I'm assuming this means in larger numbers. Even today, leprosy seems to be predominantly an equatorial disease. Also, there's confusion as to what is referred to as leprosy, as several fungal skin conditions are confused with leprosy, as opposed to the microbial disease. Probably the microbial form was present in Europe, while the fungal equivalent got spread from the Middle East via the Crusades.

RoP: The Divine makes this pretty clear. Dominion Auras arise from the action of worshipers, while other forms of Divine Auras arise from either God or his servants. Also, the Realm interaction charts make it pretty clear that the Divine is largely unaffected by other Realms. Angels operate just fine where-ever they go. You could infer that other Realms just overlap Divine ones, and the whole world is a Divine Aura of 0. :wink:

Our medical diagnoses of cases mentioned in medieval literature are at best unreliable - and the medical causes of 'leprosy' were not known then. Certainly 'leprosy' 'is one of the oldest recognized, and feared, diseases in Europe.
But we find a sharp rise of cases of 'leprosy', and of documented institutions to contain it, in early 13th century Europe. We know from his bones in the sarcophagus of Cosenza cathedral, that the son of Friedrich II, Heinrich (paleopatologia.it/articoli/a ... ecordID=95 ).

In Mythic Europe, Tytalus and Hariste had contracted leprosy well before the Crusades. Its people would not distinguish an indigenous leprosy from one coming from the Levant.

Cheers

This needs a little help.

The Liber Extra from 1234 (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_of_Penyafort) is not a papal 'edict', but a sweeping effort to reform canon law.
The idea of the 'perpetua servitus iudaeorum' was already phrased by Innocent III in 1205. But the Liber Extra constitutes it as canon law (see de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammerknechtschaft ), which then really seals the fate of the jews in Europe.

Cheers

Rather the aftermath of the Albigensian crusade, with clumsy episcopal inquisitors.

Cheers

The idea of the apocalypse - as the onset of the age of the holy spirit - in 1260 was conceived by Gioacchino da Fiore (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Eras) before 1200.
Many Franciscans saw Friedrich II as the antichrist of the apocalypse. And the more refined Salimbene di Adam (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salimbene_di_Adam) wrote a book on the Emperor aligning his faults to biblical examples.
Joachimite theology was taken up again by Franciscan spirituals like Gerardo di Borgo San Donnino (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraticelli).

Starting a campaign in 1220, a troupe might also decide that Gioacchino da Fiore was right, and then run their saga towards the prophesied abolition of the Church in the age of the fullness of grace in 1260.

Cheers

I'm not looking for the real motivation behind it, but rather why would happen in Mythic Europe. Not being allowed to consult the 'word of God' seems to be an Infernal plot.

As for the Cathars, most of their heterodox notions had nothing to do with the Bible, which they seem to have rejected almost in its entirety.

The Albigensian and North Italian Cathars based their teachings on the New Testament. Therefore laymen reading the bible were suspect in recently subdued Toulouse in 1229.

Cheers

EDIT: For a first look-up, see amazon.co.uk/Montaillou-Cath ... oy+ladurie

An exceedingly loose and selective interpretation - considering Jesus attended a wedding, was baptized and baptized others, and basically invented the whole bread and wine ceremony complete with instructions to continue it. When I read the Catharist doctrines, I can't help but say "Did any of these people actually read ANY of the New Testament?"

It is likely better if you tell me first, just how far your study of Cathars has progressed. I assume, that you have read F&F p.13ff, especially Beliefs of the Cathars?
Beyond this, we have Cathars often on this forum - so for now I refer you to https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/new-herbam-and-other-spells/157/1 .

Cheers