Some effects and spells for review

After catching a lot of flak for some of the stuff I'd tried to pull off in some of my games, I thought I'd post up here what I was attempting and see what sort of reaction they get.


The Loyal Assistant
MuMe 35
R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind
Req: Corpus

This spell creates a human body out of the caster's mind. The caster can see through both pairs of eyes and can control both bodies simultaneously.

(Base 25, +1 Touch, +2 Sun)

This is obviously a variation of Inmost Companion (AM p149), but its clearly more powerful. Originally I had intended this spell to be enchanted into a large Craftable cabinet (container) augmented with alabaster/mercury or whatever else was appropriate, usable twice a day - the mage would walk into the cabinet, activate the effect and gain a copy of himself for the day that would assist him in lab activities.

So, then there's the following options which I didn't really explore further:

  1. Making it Touch range if the mage is good enough and bypass the need to craft it as an item

  2. Add Intellego, Perdo and Vim requisites so that the spell instantly deactivates when the image is touched "violently" or by magic in order to prevent the main drawback of the effect, which is that if your mind dies, you die. When used this way it has to be in an item, but it also is pretty powerful in that if you were good enough you could make it last Moon and then stay home most of the time and send out your simulacrum to do things for you.

  3. Read two books at once? Conduct a lab experiment and read? Use two labs simultaneously on separate projects?

  4. Can the simulacrum cast spells?

  5. Considering that you retain your mind after casting this, can you have multiple copies of yourself active?


The Helping Hand
ReVi X
R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind

This is a variant of Maintaining the Demanding Spell (AM p162) whose purpose is not actual use as a spell, but as an effect in an item with unlimited uses per day with a simple physical trigger that can be performed without hindering spellcasting. Blammo, all your spells are Sun duration. The way that these sorts of effects are presented you can theoretically make it duration Moon without affecting the magnitude, since it works on spells of its level or lower.

Toss in an unlimited use PeVi effect with an Intellego requisite to turn off any lingering effects in a hurry, though the description of Maintaining the Demanding Spell implies that you can take back Concentration from the spell whenever you want which in turn implies that you should be able to turn off these effects individually without bothering with a PeVi effect.

This is a good argument why such booster effects need to only work on spells of levels equal to or lower than the Base Level used to craft these spells - Maintaining the Demanding Spell (AM p162) works on extending Conc duration spells but has a Diameter duration and Touch range. At a minimum, the base effect is 2 magnitudes below the target spell, implying that Maintaining the Demanding Spell boosts spells whose levels are 2 magnitudes higher than its own base effect, but it doesn't really go into this. It just says that it boosts spells its own level or lower.


The Infinite Libram

This is actually a series of magical effects that have to be enchanted into items to get them to work right since they interlock so much.

The idea is that its possible to create a copy of something, but maintaining multiple copies is problematic. Therefore, The Infinite Libram attempts to sidestep this by creating just one extremely large, single book. Instead of copying books individually, the books are copied and added to the Infinite Libram.

The effects work like this:

  1. A work to be copied is placed next to the Infinite Libram

  2. When activated, the Infinite Libram copies the blank pages of the work into the back of itself with The Perfect Medium (EFFECT #1)

  3. The Dutiful Scribe (EFFECT #2) copies the ink portion of the work into the newly-added blank pages from step 2.

  4. Maintaining the Pages (EFFECT #3) and Maintaining the Ink (EFFECT #4) then cast themselves, ending their previous incarnations and replacing the old Infinite Libram with a new Infinite Libram (now with the added contents of steps 2 and 3).

  5. Pages of the book are hidden and the book itself resizes to fit whatever tome within the Libram is currently being examined.

The Perfect Medium
CrAn 35
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Group
Requisites: Intellego

This spell copies the pages of a book you are touching, placing the copied blank pages into the Infinite Libram.

(Base 5, +1 Touch, +2 Group, +2 intricacy, +1 requisites)

The Dutiful Scribe
CrTe 30
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Group
Requisites: Intellego

This spell copies a book that you are touching into the Infinite Libram, duplicating exactly the written text and illumination; any mistakes or damage to the inked parts is copied exactly.

(Base 1, +1 Touch, +2 Group, +5 intricacy, +1 requisites)

Maintaining the Pages
CrAn 30
R: Per, D: Sun, T: Ind
Requisites: Intellego

This spell copies the various pages of the Infinite Libram, duplicating exactly the sizes and materials.

(Base 5, +2 Sun, +2 intricacy, +1 requisites)

Maintaining the Ink
CrTe 25
R: Per, D: Sun, T: Ind
Requisites: Intellego

This spell copies the written contents of the Infinite Libram, duplicating exactly the written text and illumination.

(Base 1, +2 Sun, +5 intricacy, +1 requisites)

Hiding and Revealing the Bulky Contents
MuAn 25
R: Per, D: Conc, T: Part
Requisites: Intellego, Terram

This spell hides the unused pages of the Infinite Libram, condensing each tome individually down into two pages (a readable title page and a hopelessly compressed and unreadable contents page) and causing only the currently-viewed tome of the book to reveal itself fully. Additionally, this causes the Libram to resize itself to fit the currently-examined book.

(Base 5, +1 Conc, +1 intricacy, +2 requisites)

Maintaining the Bulky Contents
ReVi 25
R: Touch, D: Dia, T: Ind

This spell sustains concentration on Hiding and Revealing the Bulky Contents through the sunset and sunup transition periods.

  • 2 uses per day, +1 level
  • environmental trigger (sunrise and sunset), +3 levels

Hauling the Tome
ReTe 4
R: Per, D: Sun, T: Ind

This spell makes the tome an easily-managed weight by causing its protective shell to hover and be as light as a single book.

(Base 2, +2 Sun)

  • 2 uses per day, +1 level
  • environmental trigger (sunrise and sunset), +3 levels

These series of effects are based on the ritual Twinning the Tome (HoH: TL p101) and its intricacy guidelines. It got me thinking about why do it all at once as a ritual, once per tome, when you can just create an uber-tome that houses everything? The initial vis investment is high but you can theoretically house every book at Durenmar in this thing.


Minor Magical Focus and Verditius crafting

Houses of Hermes: Mystery Cults has a section on Mystery groups among the Verditius, called Confraternities. When discussing these, they have the following intro:

"Each confraternity has a unique Inner Mystery available to its members, a less specialized Virtue that mirrors a common Hermetic Virtue..."

It goes on to list a few of these Confraternities, but what's notable about them is what 'less specialized Virtue that mirrors a common Hermetic Virtue' some of these Confraternities get, and the implications of that.

The Confraternity of Roland "have developed an Ordeal to impart the Minor Hermetic Virtue Minor Magical Focus (Swords)."

The Confraternity of Himinis the Mad use "an Ordeal to teach his Initiates the Minor Hermetic Virtue Minor Magical Focus (Wooden Wands)."

The implication is that choosing a Minor Magical Focus that is based around the final product of your Verditius construction project "mirrors a common Hermetic Virtue" - basically allowing a Verditius mage to take Minor Magical Focus (whatever specialization of Crafting I'm using for this character).

... after adjustments for duration, range, etc., yes. So if you increase those, it will work on progressively less powerful spells.

And one mundane torch / violent Evil Henchman / BoAF / PeAnHe(ink) spell destroys your whole library.

(btw: why Terram in some effects and Animal in others? Are your über-tome a set of stone tablets? copper sheets? gemstone mosaics?)

I was going by the Twinning the Tome requirements - the spell is CrAn for the pages and binding and Terram for the ink. In this case the binding is ignored.

I think it would be possible to make the tome more difficult to destroy than a simple torch with a few more low-magnitude effects, but there's always a magic powerful enough to disenchant so that issue still remains.

The same drawback could be mentioned about any covenant's books though (except for the Perdo effects). Losing a library to fire is a real concern for any covenant.

About your spell, the

It says on ArM5 p159 on MuVi guidelines, that

I (as well as our ASG) would strongly enforce this rule to cover other XxVi spells as well, since having an item like that would be too good, and wouldn't really fit there. At least I would change the spell to be of Concentration duration and have the item maintain concentration - for only one spell at a time. Even then, I wouldn't like to see this item in my enemies hands, and much less on one of our players.

While perhaps possible through game mechanics, I'd have a hard time fitting this into our campaign again. How would you do the copying? Just lay down the Libram next to the book you want copied, then wait a few seconds and run off with your newest addition to your library? If a scribe copies a summa and is done in a season, how would an item like this affect the balance of your game?

I hope I'm not coming down too hard on your ideas, I'm just a bit worried about the power level of the magus in question. If you're going for a more high fantasy setting, it's all good, but for a normal ArM campaign, I'd have hard time trying to get everyone else in my group to agree with these items.

I missed that quote. That helps quite a bit with that one! Thanks!


Re: The Infinite Libram

Well, the idea would be that you'd keep the Libram itself in a 'container' for Shape bonuses - the container would be a box with two compartments, one of which contains the Libram and the other contains the work to be copied. Then, put them together, close it up, activate, and poof.

Originally it was a mirror that reflected the book and held the reflection in an Imaginem library, but the difficulty in nailing the Finesse roll to exactly copy something and then doing that over and over with every new copied work just made it too difficult.

The questions about balance are precisely why I brought these things forward and I take no offense - they really get to the heart of the matter. I suppose they get at the real reason why I posted up the Libram and the Loyal Assistant: what is the relationship between game balance and encouraging player ingenuity? The Libram has several high-end effects and would require a skilled crafter as well as a good load of vis to pull off... the fact that it obviates copying makes it clearly powerful.

However, is the difficulty in crafting it as well as the creativity of the player in devising it to be acknowledged and encouraged (with balance addressed 'in-game'), or is its use so potent that creating such effects, even with such a hurdle as its difficulty, is to be discouraged?

I came up with a lot of these things when I got tired of playing mages that spent their time crafting rings of invisibility and wands that blasted fire and all the other hackneyed stuff. But in doing so it clearly begins raising questions as to what is appropriate to handle in-game vs out-of-game and I wanted to see what a general opinion on these items would be.

I mean, what if I wanted to play a masterful Verditius crafter who wanted to put forward something into competition? How can a player determine where the fuzzy line is between "ingenious and clever" and "overpowered and not allowed" if the limits aren't defined? How could such a character functionally compete if their ideas are apparently too good?

I quite like the idea of the library in a box.

Cow and calf should prevent excessive abuse, or offer major stories if it is abused. Imagine agreements along the lines, you can include this text in your library, but you are not permitted to copy it from there. You can only study one text from your library at a time - feel the frustration from your sodales.

Also, the moment a book on Parma Magica is included, there will be extreme hazard in allowing anyone who is not of the Order to access this device. Boom today?

The loyal assistant strikes me as overpowered, in that it duplicates your mind, then apparently allows simultaneous integration of all knowledge from the separate mind. The Limit of the Soul should apply. Creating the body is easy (ish). Allowing your mind/soul to inhabit both simultaneously...

I might accept creating a second body that you can operate while you own body is unconscious. This would have the dual hazards that your mind and soul can be harmed /destroyed in the roaming body, and your own body remains vulnerable while you are not there.

Just my couple of shiny low denomination coins worth, mind.

Basicly this is just another variant of the addled lab-routine, since only one of the bodies will be able to do anything at a time... After all, your mind isn't copied - it just gets a body of it's own...

I figured the largest problem with the Infinite Libram was convincing other covenants to actually let you use it. :slight_smile:

However, I was actually kicked from an online game during the character creation process for proposing this one (as well as the other effects listed here), so for my own edification I posted it here for reactions.

I'd agree with the limitations about the Loyal Assistant only creating a new mind and the operator being limited to one mind at a time if not for how Inmost Companion works (AM p149):

"...the target controls his body, as well as the (created mind's), as normal. In particular, it can see through both sets of sensory organs."

This contradicts the assumption that the mage would only be able to control one body at a time. Inmost Companion basically allows for both the body and the mind-body to operate simultaneously without hindrance; creating a new Corpus-based body rather than an Animal-based body would be a minor tweak but vastly important, it appears.

I would argue the Limit of the Soul would apply if you were actually making a new, independent you - but instead, you're creating an animated manifestation of your mind, not an immortal soul. The Limit of the Soul prevents the creation of an immortal soul which is why The Shadow of Life Renewed is limited in its own way, but the form of the created mind from MuMe effects doesn't appear to prevent the form taken being human/Corpus.

I think the real problem is not with the Loyal Assistant, but with Inmost Companion. Inmost Companion allows you to create a manifestation of your mind, then fly it out of the room and do whatever, and your home-body apparently experiences no degradation of thought or action. Certainly it seems that your mind is 'wandering', to say the least. However, the description of Inmost Companion implies that there's no loss of function or capability for the home-body while under the effects of the spell.

As the SG who was refusing mean_liar on these things, and it wasn't just the effects he was after, but for his refusal to accept rulings on what was acceptable in my game and also the attitude with which he attempted to get me to change my mind, that led me to kick him out of the online game. As for the effects:

The Loyal Assistant - We were talking about letting him split his concentration between both bodies at the cost of the spell being higher level, but I was insisting there must be penalties to concentration to both bodies as well as a cost to allow him to protect himself from the consequeces of the temporary body dying. I also said that you must count as being a single person in terms of the ability to cast and maintain casting and that the limits of Energy must apply so if you got tired in one body then both bodies must suffer. The spell however was rapidly increasing over 50 in level so I wouldn't let it into an item in my game.

The Helping Hand - The problem here was not that the item was designed to sustain a spell that was cast, but that when it was up for discussion with me it was both link triggered and condition triggered by dawn and dusk as per the permanent item rules, together with unlimited castings and sun duration. The end result was that as many spells as you like to sustain would be made permanent, the item sustaining each of them for ever.

I objected to the principle that a single spell combination could effectively replace the need to enchant an item with a different enchantments for each spell. I also objected to the possibility of an ever increasing number of magical effects being made permanent as the combination could be used for any variety of spells. I was holding to the principle that a seperate enchantment must be made to catch each spell that would be maintained, although the enchantment could be freed up to catch a different effect.

The Infinite Libram - This I objected to completely. I'm sorry but any magical book you can go around visiting covenant after covenant and steal their entire library in a single day each time I regarded as out of the question. Yes only a single user could read from the text at a single go, and yes the magical item holding all of these could be damaged, but still. It would be potentially asking each maintaining spell to keep in existence a few hundred thousand pages which have been conjured into existence.

Minor Magical Focus and Verditius crafting:
As far as I was concerned the main rulebook takes precedence over all subsequent rulebooks and the main rulebook says:
Minor: "Your magic is particularly attuned to some narrow field .. In general, the field should be slightly narrower than a single Technique and Form combination, although it may include restricted areas of several such combinations. Healing, for example, is a part of Creo Corpus, Creo Animal and possibly Creo Herbam. You cannot be focused on a laboratory activity, such as creating charged items."
Major: "Your magic is much more potent in a fairly limited area. This area should be smaller than a single Art, but may be spread over several Arts ... You cannot be focused on laboratory activities."

For this reason I looked at what mean_liar said as is available for minor focus from Confraternities and couldn't believe that these were allowed through as official rules.

A lab activity such as creating charged items is banned explicitly, but creating magic items in the form of wooden wands is allowed. Wooden wands could be invested items, charged items or lesser enchantments, in other words far more wide a focus than charged items. Such a focus isn't confined by technique and form, it isn't confined even by a fairly limited selection of arts, it is every single art, it is every single spell you like to enchant. This is focusing on your target, on the object you are enchanting, not specializing your own magic as the basic rules say.

As such these Confraternities clearly exceed the rules for major magic focus' let alone minor, and I am still convinced this must have been missed in proof reading. You might as well allow a focus on a specific duration and allow specialization in all momentary spells.

Wasn't this a bit harsh? Couldn't a simple "no" suffice?

Bof... IMO, not so great a problem.

Sure, you can control both bodies, and can sense through both sets of sensory organs.
But he still has one mind.
It's like doing 2 different things with your arms, or read a story while hearing another one: Sure, you can do it, but as the tasks gets more complex, you can't keep up, and soon have to concentrate entirely on one thing.

This doesn't mean that you can't control your 2 arms at once, or can't hear AND see, but that any difficult task requires too much attention to do this efficiently, just as any difficult task (like lab work) won't let you act as 2 separate entities, even if you can have 2 bodies.

Very interesting ideas.

I agree the problem lies with the Innmost Companion. That spell should leave the body a mindless husk (and hence perhaps require a Perdo requisite...).

Errg, no. You instill one effect, it maintains one spell for as long as it is active. You can deactivate the effect, ending it, and then reactivate the effect as you will, with unlimited frequency - but not make all your spells last longer.

Although it isn't required by RAW, I would suggest applying the MuVi guidelines as noted above, joining the chorus. This renders this item unmakable. I would suggest allowing the mystery of the Consumate Talisman to allow use of ReVi guidelines in items, in this case.

Working without any parma, here - this is problematic. You are creatng blank pages in your own book, of a size and general constitution taken from the copied book, right? The special basically has two targets - the original is the target of the Intellego effect, and the created pages the target of the Creo effect. I wouldn't want copying something to require two spells, however! So I think the spell is alright as it is, but it's a strange circumstance.

I'm not sure the Intellego requisite is even needed. You copy whatever you're touching - you don't learn anything about it!

I wouldn't allow that. It stands in opposition to the guidelines in Societetas and Covenants, in that it creates fine details without Finesse. (No, increasing intricacy doesn't allow you to do that.) Ink is also typically He, with some An and Te; not just Te. I can understand you're just creating the matter, Te, but I'd say no - the ink is Te if it's metaliic, like gold leaf, but generally to affect dried herbs you'd need dry herbs...

My own version of the copying a book is much simpler, BTW. It can be found in this little essay, and is

Creation of the Alexandria’s Golden Treasures
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind; CrAn(Im) 20 Ritual

This spell simply duplicates the book the caster is touching. Ink isn’t copied directly – instead, color is infused into the parchment, mimicking the effects of iron-gall and similar inks. The produced colors may appear slightly unnatural, and the creation would be subtly touched by the caster's sigil. A faithful reconstruction requires a Perception + Finesse roll of 15+ (a roll of 21+ is required to replicate the fine details of superior scribing and illumination); a roll of 14 or less results in gibberish.

If the book has wooden bindings or incorporates other materials, casting requisites might be necessary.

A version with Target: Group (level 30) is also available, allowing the duplication of multiple books at once (up to about 40 or so – but they need to be arranged in a single pile).

If used to copy a Fine book (of +3 craftmanship), a Finesse roll of 15 will suffice to create a copy of adequate quality (+0 craftmanship). A roll of 18+ will provide a +1 craftmanship bonus, and a 21+ will increase the bonus to +2. If casting requisites are used for the binding (typically Herbam), another +1 to craftmanship can be obtained for good binding. More exotic requisites (such as Vim) may enable the addition of resonant materials and yet another +1 bonus. At any rate the copy can only match, never surpass, the original's quality.
(Base 5, +1 Touch, +1 treated, +1 requisite)

Again, I don't think Intellego is needed.

As noted above.

Interesting. I would again lose the Intellego requisite, letting the item's user control the shifting images with physical triggering and concentration. Affecting the ink may require more requisites, however, as noted above; I would simply use Im-infused leather myself :slight_smile:

No, as noted above, although it does probably work under RAW. I would deny ReVi for such effects. If you want to maintain concentration, modify the "Modifying the X" to maintain concentration. (Yes, this will create problems in terms of creating more content, since each Modifiying preserves one Dutiful Scribe... I'm not sure the item is possible.)

Very nice.

Which should be abandoned, IMO, in light of the newer rules in Societetas et al.

That is indeed the implication. Not sure I like it. I'd allow it as a mystery-thingie, however - more power to them!

Oh boy.

I'd just state my position on this matter, which I believe is backed by the RAW: the SG is always right.

True, true. Perhaps allowing it as a focus isn't a good idea even for mysteries

Agreed. This conclusion then leads to questions of what is rules-legal and still not allowed, and how to adjudicate such things. This was the heart of why I was booted, so I'm not surprised at the congruence of conclusions.

That was the conclusion of the SG as well.

I would say that the rules don't lend themselves immediately to this interpretation - Maintaining the Demanding Spell ostensibly operates on any spell and can be cast multiple times on separate spells while other instances of the first is active, so the question then becomes is unlimited use the unlimited execution of the effect, or a single instance of one effect that can be renewed with unlimited duration?

I accepted the interpretation of the SG, but it wasn't my initial position on the subject.

Where is this Mystery from?

Even using the MuVi limitations, at worst you'd need Maintaining the Pages and Maintaining the Ink as separate effects devoted to each instance of the modifications, correct?

I don't have Societetas or Covenants - I was personally curious why Twinning the Tome had no Finesse requirements. The ink being Te and such gave the impetus to the above requirements.

Your Im-enfused An book is good, but your Finesse requirement is extreme. I would have opted for the following (which was a previous iteration of the Infinite Libram that the SG disallowed):

Mirroring the Object
CrIm 25
R: Sight, D: Conc, T: Group
Req: Muto, Rego

This spell creates a copied image of the object or image concentrated on as if it were under perfect lighting. To perfectly copy the image takes a Perception + Finesse roll of 9+. The object can then be manipulated by the reader, zooming in and out, rotating, turning pages, etc.

Presumably you'd have to turn and examine each page while concentrating in order to get the copied Group right.

The Finesse roll would usually require 12+, but having the object at hand gives a +3 bonus (AM p143).

(Base 1, +3 Sight, +1 Conc, +2 Group, +2 Requisite)

With the item maintaining the Concentration, you have a maintained image. Then with two other independent effects that accomplish the same thing, you can copy your copy (assuming you can make the Finesse roll) - allowing you to maintain two running copies at once, which means that you can have a copy of your original (copy effect #1), a copy of every book you've ever copied as a single group image (effect #2), and then a synthesis of the two (effect #3). Then you can drop effect #1 and #2, and #3 is your running copy. On finding a new work, you copy it (effect #1), then synthesize effect #3 and effect #1 into effect #2.

If it worked it would allow a virtual library.


I didn't want to get into why I was kicked from the game - I merely wanted to discuss these effects and their legality and role in game balance - but suffice to say that thrakhath's interpretation of events was not how I saw it. I'm only posting this response because thrakhath brought it up and put his particular spin on it, which I feel requires a response.

I have no wish to discuss it further with anyone other than thrakhath, which we can always do through PMs.

To my point of reference, my "refusal to accept rulings" was my continual attempts to create RAW-legal effects that he disliked. I simply kept coming up with new effects and abilities, backed by the RAW, that he found extremely disagreeable. These effects were never put forth as "take it or leave it" items - they each had a lengthy discussion between us about each of them and then on the conclusion of that discussion I would be told that the effect is itself illegal for balance reasons. It was somewhat frustrating.

He had to deal with, as he saw it, a series of RAW-legal or RAW-dubious (though not RAW-illegal) effects that apparently attacked his idea of game balance and he continually had to make rulings to the effect of, "this might be okay, but I'm disallowing it". For my part, I was disappointed that the long discussions we had about the effects and their eventual conclusion (this is a level X effect, it needs these requisites, etc) were mooted by the follow-on which was to the effect of, "this is a really good idea and no you can't do it".

My main complaint and source of frustration wasn't that he ruled against these effects (and their precursors), but rather that such rulings invariably followed an in-depth discussion about how to make these effects do-able.

An important discussion in of itself. :slight_smile: Rules should definitely be changed in mid-stream, unlike horses, from where I'm sitting.

It is tricky. In general I would say unlimited frequency allows you to cast an infinite amount of instances of the spell, so that e.g. you can construct a wand of Beast of Outlandish Size to increase the size of your kennel dogs. However, the concentration effect modification seems inappropriate for that. The example given, an invisibility ring that can be started again, agrees with the idea that it is a single instance that can be renewed. I'd say the item can only maintain concentration on one effect with one concentration effect modification. I agree that it can be interpreted otherwise, however.

The Mysteries Revised Edition, page 90.

Yes, in principle. I'm leery of letting ReVi extend duration instead of using effect modification, but... yes, I guess.

It follows the suggestions in Covenants and Societetas - both excellent works, BTW. And yes, the ease factors are very high, but it makes a sort of sense in-setting as it preserves the usefulness and worthiness of mundane artisans and keeps magi more related to the mundane world around them.

In order to make the copy under perfect lighting, you'd need an Intellego requisite too. I would maintain the Group target for complexity, and perhaps add size modifiers using the idea that a Group suffices for 10 very detailed images, i.e. 10 pages. The ease factor, of course, is the major issue. I would imagine an illuminator would find it very difficult to draw a highly-accurate picture of a page, guessing it to be Ease Factor 12, and I agree with Societetas and Covenants that the Finesse ease factor should be higher - so I would establish the ease factor at 15, not 9. I might lower it to 12, not more.

Sure, why not.