Spell is Creo Imagonem 35 [Base 5 (Create an image that affects five senses), Range: Arcane Connection +4, Duration: Ring +2, Target: Individual +0]
A piece / 'sample' of fragrant material / perfume / incense / potpourri is placed into the Ring; the targeted fist-sized piece of quartz (specified at casting time, and linked by AC by including a bit of the stone in the Ring) becomes fragrant. The Ring area, being quite small, is sealed under a bell-jar, preserving the incense / whatever. Since the original sample of fragrant material is tightly sealed away and doesn't lose its' potency, the lump of quartz remains fragrant and pleasing for far longer than the original incense (or whatever) would have; and swapping out the chunk of perfume (requires re-casting) allows an easy change of the scent given off by the Target.
Problem: Ring is written as 'lasts until the Target leaves the Ring', and the lump of quartz (Target) is never in the Ring, and the incense (which does stay in the Ring) is never the Target. Is there a way to get this to work?
My spell design skills are a bit rusty (I haven't had a chance to play in years) but here are my thoughts:
I don't think this is how duration Ring works. Ring gives you a relatively cheap option for spells that can last indefinitely but it comes with restrictions. These involve the need for the target to remain in the ring and for thee ring to be drawn at the time of casting. I think you'd have to either draw a ring around the crystal or use a different duration. Maybe bump it up to Moon?
On the bright side, if you only create the smell Base 1 should be sufficient, I think. So you should be able to do this with a Level 20 spell (Base 1, Range: Arcane Connection +4, Duration: Moon +3, Target: Individual +0).
I don't think this is how duration Ring works. Ring gives you a relatively cheap option for spells that can last indefinitely but it comes with restrictions. These involve the need for the target to remain in the ring and for thee ring to be drawn at the time of casting. I think you'd have to either draw a ring around the crystal or use a different duration. Maybe bump it up to Moon?
Yeah, that was the problem I highlighted. Initially it seemed great, but then I realized the spell-as-proposed just does not work.
And a simpler guideline would be just fine for a scent -- but the idea of using this for 'let me sell you a lump of Myrrh; really, it is not worthless quartz' or 'Swap the Myrrh for a skunk' shenanigans was going to be the next few questions along this line.
I suppose the spell could be just Creo Imagonem 35 [Base 5 (Create an image that affects five senses), Range: Arcane Connection +4, Duration: Sun +2, Target: Individual +0] -- and that would allow a 5-sense illusion at AC range. But it loses the 'must keep the sample inside the ring' aspect, which was a neat flavor.
I note that Hermetic Magic generally doesn't have guidelines for restricting an effect, like a Sword +1 (only while in France). Those could be neat, and maybe allow spells to lose functionality to be less expensive; probably a bit of a headache, though.
[Edit:] What about casting the spell on the quartz instead of the Myrrh? Cast to create an illusion over this rock, of that Target Myrrh over there in a Ring? Now the Myrrh is the target, and restricted to the Ring -- but the casting has to be done at Touch Range, and persists no matter where the quartz goes. So: Creo Imagonem 20 [Base 5 (Create an image that affects five senses), Range: Touch +1, Duration: Ring +2, Target: Individual +0]. The expensive Myrrh warps, though, instead of the cheap quartz.
The flavour of keeping the scent locked away is indeed nice. It could just be included just as flavour. It would brr great if you could change the scent by dealing out the ingredients. If you re-cast the spell that'll work anyway. It may be possible to do it without recasting at an extra magnitude or two?
I see what you are saying about disguising the crystal as something more expensive. That certainly would require more senses, although in many cases sight, touch, and smell would probably suffice.
On an unrelated note, Duration: Place sounds like a great research project for a magus who doesn't want their magic items to wonder off
I am struggling to understand the purpose of the spell.
Is to have something that smell constantly ? (then only one sense need to be affected, which will drastically reduce the level)
Is the objet going to have to move a lot ?
Is it going to be sold to mundane (as a way to trick them into buying something expensive) ?
To remain with ring duration, I propose:
The eternal source of delightful patchouli scent
CrIm 4 (Base 1, D: Ring (+1), R: touch (+1), T: Cercle (+1))
The Ring is carved into a metal disc, a cristal is crimped into the center. The spell is cast.
It gives the sensation that the cristal is smelling wonderfully and perfumes the space around.
Keep in mind that olfactory species can travel outside the Ring (like a magical fire created into a ring warms people outside the ring). So it can last a very long time until somebody damages the metal carving.
If you have access to Faerie magic, Fire duration will be perfect for an incense burner type item to cast a spell onto it (Imaginem and Fire magic are the two forms that can use Fire duration).
The purpose is to create an absolutely convincing illusion which lasts an arbitrary amount of time -- the illusion is 'this worthless lump of rock is actually a valuable lump of Myrrh' (or Frankincense, or Sandalwood, or scented Ambergris, or Amber, or whatever else might be inside this Target container). The source / reference / container stays under control of the casting mage, while the lump of rock can be carried away; placed in a high, inaccessible nook; put in a pocket and carried around to improve the aroma of the otherwise vulgar surroundings; placed in a censer or brazier; etc.
Important stretch goals include 1} Not having the valuable thing be subject to warping by not being the Target, 2} having arbitrary Range, 3} not needing a Ritual to cast; 4} not having to go outside the published guidelines, 5} not needing any special Virtues or Flaws, and 6} not needing to create an Item to pull this off.
I might be able to do this with Faerie D: Until +4 (Ritual) 'until the sample leaves this small inscribed area' or D:Hidden +4 (Ritual) 'Until the location of the sample is no longer hidden' -- but these require Rituals, and virtues or research.
Currently this seems easy to do by sacrificing the arbitrary duration -- cast it for some defined duration (like Sun or Moon), on two objects at Touch range. Or, on the 'sample' object and an Arcane Connection to make it Range: AC +4.
Supposing the spell is just Creo Imagonem 35 [Base 5 (Create an image that affects five senses), Range: Arcane Connection +4, Duration: Sun +2, Target: Individual +0] -- exactly how convincing is this illusion? What does it take to break the illusion or see through it?
I don't think you need a sample of the valuable thing. Mimicking the smell (and other senses if they are included in the spell) well enough to fool someone who is familiar with the product may require a Finesse roll. I'd allow a sample present at the casting to supply an increased familiarity bonus, but it isn't required.
Making a rock smell like Myrrh is just a Base 1 CrIm spell. If you also want it to look like Myrrh, it would be Base 2. Sound and taste are probably not required for most applications of this spell, but touch may be. So, at most, Base 3, I'd say. Of course, Myrrh may be consumed (so taste could be useful) but keep in mind that the illusion would not hold up if someone tried to break off a piece from the rock.
I was hoping that with a Creo effect, it would make a perfect copy of the sample -- although I suppose that the lump of Myrrh is not a platonic form, so 'perfect' may not be an option. And if I used a sphere of delicious hard candy, taste would be important, but chewing would be a bad idea.
Still, I am unclear when a sample is needed (or preferred) and a target is needed (or preferred). It looks like a CrIm spell could just make an insubstantial illusion of some imaginary bit of incense -- neither real Myrrh or real quartz are needed at all. Providing an actual chunk of Myrrh is intended to make an illusion of that particular chunk of Myrrh -- and providing a chuck of quartz provides an actual solid that can be slammed down onto a table, or rubbed, or whatever. But CrIm base 5 'create an illusion to all five senses' does not seem to need to be cast 'over' anything....
CrHe 2 guideline can make a lump of myrrh. With Moon duration it'll be used before it's gone. I'm not even sure you'd need any Finesse to recreate Soqotran-flavored myrrh if you've already handled some.
Yeah, if the purpose is to have some Myrrh to sell just creating the real thing seems more straightforward.
If it is mainly about having ready access to a source of pleasant smell, just creating the smell would be relatively easy. A device that provides that smell indefinitely wouldn't be too hard to produce. Either via the Duration: Ring route or as a lesser enchantment.
The real crux here was 'make one thing resemble another thing'. Make this lump of stone look like that statue; make this clothing look like that clothing; make this lump of tar smell like that myrrh. The idea of having several lumps of 'stuff' which smell exactly like 'other stuff' was that the covenant could go from smelling like myrrh, to smelling like fresh pine, or patchouli, or green mint, or fresh-baked bread, or whatever by simply changing out what is in the defined 'what the lumps smell like' area. Do not let folks dump fermenting sewage in the 'smells like' area.
I want to understand how I could use the guidelines for various shenanigans. Like: my clothes look exactly like whatever garment (chosen from all those hung inside this wardrobe); or all these crystals are exactly like that other crystal (which is sometimes enchanted to shed sunlight); or this male grog exactly resembles (whatever man last touched this pillar); or this lump of clay exactly resembles any small (and potentially very delicate) carving which is placed inside this ring. More particularly, is there a way to 'make {item} exactly resemble {target}' -- because it seems like {item} is always the target.
Maybe I am just weak at my guideline-fu; but it is not obvious that any of the above effects are possible in standard Hermetic magic.
Most of those aren't actually one effect: they're two.
What does [thing] smell/look like. That's an Intellego effect targeting [thing], and it's Form won't be Imaginem. InIm spells are about manipulating your (or the target's) senses. This needs something like the InTe 5 guideline "learn one mundane property of an object."
Make [other thing] resemble something else. That's a Muto Imaginem effect, targeting [other thing].
You can't squeeze them into one spell because the effects have two different targets. This is the sort of thing you need an enchanted item for, with Linked effects -- the item learns what the smell is with effect #1, then copies it onto something else with effect #2.
You can't apply Ring duration to make #2 indefinite unless [other target] remains within the Circle for the entire duration.
I think that is the solution I was looking for; thanks. One bowl (full of quartz) is the item; it has InTe 15 (Sense all the mundane properties of a composite object inside a designated Circle/Ring), and a linked MuIm 5 (Change an object completely, in all things except touch; resemble object in designated Circle/Ring of the rim of the bowl of myrrh) effect. This does not fool touch, though.
Does Arcane Circle or Arcane Ring make this easier?
To use any Circle or Ring, the caster or user of the enchanted item must trace the circle. So, if you intend for the bowl to define a circle, someone must fill it with quartz and then trace the bowl's circle to activate the InTe effect.
Then, presumably, the object being effected isn't also in the bowl, so someone needs to use the bowl to trace a circle around that object. The effect ends when that object leaves the circle traced around it, or when that circle is otherwise broken.
Arcane Circle & Arcane Ring mean that you could instead trace the circle of the bowl again instead of having to use the bowl itself to trace a circle around the object whose appearance is being changed. BUT, that object must still be within a defined circle of its own, and the effect ends when it leaves that circle (or it is otherwise broken) or when the bowl's circle is broken (... presumably by putting something else into the bowl).
Circle shenanigans are difficult to exploit, by design. You don't really need a Circle on the InTe effect -- it can be Touch, and Momentary; once the bowl knows what it needs to copy the need for that effect is done.
I'm not sure how putting a Ring or Arcane Ring on the MuIm effect is helping here: it makes that effect very fragile. If you're trying to fool someone with your fake quartz they'll be very suspicious if you insist that it must remain within the marked circle and that they cannot reach in (thereby breaking the circle) to examine the item.
Also, the MuIm effect probably needs some additional levels of Complexity since the illusion it is making can be a wide variety of things. In my game I'd probably say +3 Complexity since it can essentially copy anything.
I was thinking that the bowl of quartz used it's own rim, (identical to the rim of the bowl of myrrh) to define (at AC range) the Arcane Circle and Arcane Ring of the spell the item is casting. The bowl of myrrh is not enchanted, but is made from the same clay the bowl of quartz is made from -- the bowl of quartz has an AC (for the 'out of sight' range) to the bowl of Myrrh embedded in it.
So we are at:
'Examine the Contents of the Remote Bowl' InTe 44
InTe 15 (Sense all the mundane properties of a composite object inside a designated Circle/Ring), Range: AC (+4), Duration: Momentary (+0), Target: Arcane Circle (+1, everything in the other bowl) and +4 levels (+3 environmental trigger, +1 for 2 uses/day)
'Imitate the Contents of the Remote Bowl' MuIm 24
MuIm 5 (Change an object completely, in all things except touch); Range: Touch (+1), Duration: Sun (+2), Target: Circle (+0, everything in this bowl) +4 levels (+3 environmental trigger, +1 for 2 uses/day)
Or -- to affect 'Touch' as well:
'Imitate the Contents of the Remote Bowl' CrIm 24
CrIm 5 (Create an image that affects five senses); Range: Touch (+1), Duration: Sun (+2), Target: Circle (+0, everything in this bowl) +4 levels (+3 environmental trigger, +1 for 2 uses/day)
We could, just for 'smells nice' get by with InTe 4 (Learn one mundane property of an object -- 'What does it smell like?') (level 29 effect) and MuIm 1 (Change one sensation of an object -- 'Change the smell of the object') (level 7 effect); but the spells as presented are overkill -- and useful for light, flavor, and music (?) as well.
The design above uses two spells:
Sensing the Contents of the Remote Bowl (InTe, level 40)
InTe 15; Range: AC (+4); Duration: Momentary (+0); Target: Arcane Circle (+1)
and
Imitate the Contents of the Remote Bowl (MuIm, Level 20)
MuIm 5; Range: Touch (+1), Duration: Sun (+2), Target: Circle (+0)
The +4 magnitudes for AC range is killing me here. Is it possible to use an 'Intangible Tunnel' effect instead? That might reduce the first spell from Range: AC (+4) to Range: Touch (+1), which would allow the 'Sense' spell to go to level 25. That prevents warping on the contents of the remote bowl, which is pretty important.
So this would become:
'Open The Way To The Remote Bowl' (ReVi 20 or 25)
ReVi (General guideline 4, allow conduit for level 25 spells); Range: AC (+4); Duration: momentary (+0) or Concentration/Diameter (+1)
Sense the Contents of the Remote Bowl (InTe 25)
Imitate the Contents of the Remote Bowl (MuIm, Level 20)
Is there any reason this does not work? What about filling the remote bowl with quartz which magically gives off sunlight? A set of tinkling wind chimes? A small statuette of a nymph pouring water from an urn?
If I wanted a to imbue an effect in the 'local' bowl, which could (on demand) turn the nymph in the remote bowl to face a different direction (or do a brief, user-specified, dance)... what would that be like?
ReTe 2 for changing facing? Duration: Momentary (+0); Range: Touch (+1, through the intangible tunnel)
