Page 183 says that you must roll one additional botch die per point of an aura that is foreign to your realm. If you could roll botch dice, it can't be done with a simple roll, ergo you must roll a stress die for results. Thus, casting magic within a foriegn realm is always stressful.
Conveiently, Ars Notoria users can reduce the affects of the Divine by one point per level of Ars Notoria. (trying to hide the immense grin on my face.)
And that is exact what I didn't find where its say that adding botch die change a single die to a stress die.
Under Stress Die ArM 6 it even special say "Stress dice are rolled when a character is under stress"
Under Botches in ArM 87 again "The results of a given spell cast under stress are not entirely predictable"
So reading from this I say you only allowed to roll a stress die, no matter how many botch die you would have to add, in a stressful situation or if you a stressed but not in calm conditions except its special ruled that you have to (or can) use a stress die.
With all due respect, I disagree with your interpretation. I think implicit within the statement on p. 183 is that you roll the extra botch dice in situations where you roll botch dice. The sentence before the one on botch dice says: " Auras also affect the number of botch dice for an attempted supernatural act in a foreign realm. I agree with that. If you botch, then you must roll additional botch dice equal to the Aura strength. Let's say you're in a Dominion 3 Aura. Rather than a base 1 Botch die, you have a base 4 Botch dice. Pretty awful, I must say.
But, let's look at what triggers a botch, and makes you roll those awful dice, The core rules on page 6 note that there are two kids of dice you can roll: a Simple die and a Stress die. For a simple die, each number represents its value (from 1 to 10). There is no way that rolling a simple die will trigger a Botch. A 0 does not represent a Botch; it represents a 10. A Stress die, on the other hand, can provoke a botch if you roll a 0. In that case, it triggers your rolling the pool of Botch dice. Page 7 of the rules says that in most situations you roll a single Botch die, but some circumstances might warrant more. Clearly stressful casting in a foreign aura is just such a situation because p. 183 states that the Botch dice go up in a foreign Aura.
Let's turn now to p. 81 where they discuss formulaic magic. There they say that: "The type of die rolled depends on the situation. If the maga is not under any pressure, it is a simple die. If she is in a stressful situation, it is a stress die." So if a maga is not under pressure, she rolls a simple die. That same maga casting under stressful situations would risk rolling her pool of Botch dice (normally 1, but maybe more). But that's only if she has to roll using a stress die. So long as she is just rolling a simple die, the potential number of Botch dice she might have to roll is irrelevant.
Of importance in this situation is that while the rules say that the number of Botch dice rises in a foreign Aura, they do not anywhere say that our maga must always roll using a stress die in a foreign Aura, while they do say that a maga not under any pressure rolls a simple die. Now, heaven help that poor maga if she has to cast in the foreign aura in a stressful situation, such as combat, or being chased by an angry crowd, or being plagued by a tormenting demon, or whatever. Then she must roll using a stress die, and if she rolls a 0 will have to roll her increased pool of Botch dice. But so long as she stays calm, she gets to roll a Simple die and will never provoke a Botch.
Of course, I have few formulaic spells, and what few I have are mostly mastered. All this really matters for with me are the flavor spells like Cloak of Duck's Feathers and Comfort of the Drenched Traveler. Though I suppose it might save me a season or two if I didn't have to master all my spells.
Trogdor, sorry, I posted this in the Character Creation thread:
Trogdor, I thank you for your diligence. Page 86 gets around the whole non-magic aura issue that had me so concerned. Just one point of Spell Mastery, and you can cast a non-stressed spell next to the Pope. I'm going to agree with your interpretation, that Mastered spells have no botch die, even in a foriegn aura, or if they are rituals. I'm going to stop talking about this issue, before I look like even more of a fool.
Flawless Magic has to be the best Hermetic Virtue.
Since this is the thread for spell creations, I'm copying over spells that Poenitens created.
Peoniten's Spells:
Gift of Stamina CrCo 45 (Base 40, +1 Touch) Adds one to target’s Stamina, up to a +2.
Postpone Reaper’s Kiss CrCo 45 (Base 40, +1 Touch) Heals target from a Terminal Illness.
Stamina of the Heroes CrCo 60 (Base 55, +1 Touch, Target: Circle) All within circle get a +1 to Stamina, up to a +5.
Stalwart Guards MuCo 25 (Base 10, +1 Touch, +2 Sun). Add +2 to Soak. Also reduces fine motor coordination by -1. Reduced from Gift of the Bear’s Fortitude so that it doesn’t cause Warping.
Gift of Perception CrMe 45 (Base 40, +1 Touch) Adds one to target’s Perception, up to a +2.
Gift of Reason CrMe 40 (Base 35, +1 Touch, Target: Circle) All within the circle get a +1 to Intelligence, limited to a +1.
Silent Inquisitor InMe 25 (Base 15, +1 Eye, +1 Concentration) Like Pose the Silent Question, but allows multiple questions.
Are we going with the Gentle Casting Spell Mastery as it suggested by One Shot / jeason72 here:
I will need it with at last one of the healing spells I plan to get. Also are we going with 1 extra target per level in the mastery or only 1 extra target each time this mastery is taken?
I don't have any trouble with that mastery.
If we allow that mastery, I would say that you should get one extra non-warped target per level of mastery. Those levels of mastery get expensive quickly, I don't think that you'll be seeing a lot of extra people on the list.
I concur with Trogdor.
good so it looks like we have accepted the Gentle Casting Spell Mastery as it is written up by One Shot, this should be a interesting mastery option for the rituals that are mastered to reduce the botch dies.
Although I think we still don't have a agreement how we handle the first free target with area and group targets but with this mastery we have now a other option to expand the list of person that are not warped from attribute increasing and strong healing rituals without inventing them again.
Adauli, go ahead with Gentle Casting, if you want to take it.
A completely different question. Poenitens has enchanted a very powerful version of Pilum of Fire in his talisman:
The effect is CrIg 53, but the base effect is 20. If I want to enchant the talisman further, to modify the CrIg effect, do I need to match the base value of 20, or the full effect of 53?
I think it was Silveroak who brought this forward.
How do we handle Spell Mastery when having 2 or more spell where just the magnitude of the effect is different? (I.e. Aegis, Teleport, circle against demon and so on)
I'm personal for using the same mastery here for all the spells although it make the adaptive mastery obsolet.
If we allow this we have to talk what are the guidelines we can apply this on. I.e just increasing the damage while keeping the effect, target and so on the same should apply for this.
@thompsja sorry your question need to be answered by the other 2 as I didn't read me into the talisman special rules deep enough.
I’m not sure what you mean. It was my understanding that, barring certain Verditius mysteries, once you enchant something, it’s fixed and can’t be modified.
What precisely are you trying to do?
Per page 87, the spell is the same if they have the same "Arts, level, Range, Duration, Target, and effect." If I develop an Aegis at level 30 in my lab, and you read a lab text for an Aegis at level 30, they are the same spell. If they are of different levels, they are not. They wouldn't have the same mastery, unless we have Adaptive Casting, and we decided that is a private knowledge of the Cult of Mercury.
If you want to say Adaptive Casting doesn't exist and all General Spells of a particular effect are equivalent for purposes of Spell Mastery, I'm not opposed to it. It's not a big deal for me.
I want to put Wizard's Reach (Ignem) as a MuVi effect, so that the Pilum of Fire has Sight Range, rather than Voice. Or, I'm considering putting Sorcerer's Fork, so I can split up the +54 Pen total against multiple targets. You can have MuVi effects embedded in a device, as long as they only affect other effects in the same device.
It’s been a while since I read those rules. All I remembered was that you couldn’t put MuVi effects into items. I hadn’t remembered that you could if they only effected things in the item.
My inclination is that you would go with the base effect, since penetration is just an add-on. But I’d be curious to hear what silveroak has to say on the matter.
I have not run across this limitation before, does anyone know where it is listed?
It's set forth in the MuIm guidelines on page 159 of the core rules.
The MuVi rules on 159 state that you can only install a MuVi effect in an item to modify other effects in the same item. This prevents you from purchasing a level 50 Sorcerer's Fork from your local Verditius, and allowing you to multicast everything.
because of course why would anyone put it under rules for enchanting?
It looks fairly straightforward, if a bit of a cludge. I mean why have a second effect to modify the first instead of just making the first spell what you want it to be. Unless you just can't reach the lab total to do that.
Aside from that it looks like the MuVi effect is installed as a separate effect, with the lab total required based on the effect installed, not previous effects. If ou are talking about the base level for the effect, the guidelines say it affects a spell with a certain level, not a certain base level, so if the effect is level 50, then the wizards reach is level 55. I would not include levels added to the affect under special enchantment effects that would not apply to spells (triggers, uses per day, etc,,,)
This is what I thought.
Poenitens, alas, has Weak Magic. So I had to cut down the base effect to allow for a lot of penetration, and that's the best I could manage with a lab total of 80 and two seasons. I'm wondering if it makes sense to amplify it in some way using MuVi, either longer range, or splitting the spell.