Spell designing: The unremembered Guest

Well, this is no better, and wouldn't work as you think.

The range is the range to the target.
I don't think this'd work at all, but if allowed, it'd probably allow you to look at someone inside the structure in the eyes, and then, through him, affect everyone inside that structure (just like R: Eye, T: Group but on a bigger scale), for as long as you concentrate.
This is no better than touching a wall and affecting everyone within.

What you're trying to achieve is sensory magic, which uses another set of targets entirely.

I think the better RAW solution is to use ReMe to stop people from noticing you (Isn't there a quaesitor spell that works like that already???). Talking to them would be hard (you'd have to go against your first spell effects constantly), but they'd remember you, unless you subsequently used PeMe

By necessity not the same logic. A person can be part of a group, but how would that person be part of the structure (save by being walled in I suppose...)?
A person in a structure just happens to be there, it's not a fundamental part of the structure (whereas a group without any given person by definition is another group, if you think about it).

I don't disagree with this, it's just that those 2 InIm spells work that way. If there is an explanation to make it fit, great.

Yeah because its so wonderfully logical to have a limit of affecting what you can detect combined with being able to hit 10 people, 9 of which you cant detect.

And as noted by Tellus, you then have the further mess of affecting people in a VERY inclusive way.

I'm not convinced this is Muto Mentem. Muto changes memories - but what's being changed, and to what? When the spell is cast, there is no memory, and once it's there - it's being removed. That's either Perdo (to remove it) or Rego (to prevent the (conscious) notice in the first place).


Couple problems are immediately obvious (and pardon, did not read entire thread, so forgive any redundancy).

To start, the spell is changing a "major memory" (Base 2) - but that memory doesn't exist as yet. More, if the person sees the mage on 2 different occasions, wouldn't that be more than one target, as it's more than one major memory? (Meh, I could live with these if I accepted MuMe to begin with - as a continual effect, it's in the ballpark.)

But more, once the sell lapses, all those memories return to normal. All those changed memories revert to the original, accurate memory. So this might be good for wandering about without setting off any general alarm, but they'll remember afterward. (Now, they may not have any reason to think twice about it at that point, but they'll remember it as normal if the topic comes up.)

Here's the spell I designed (long ago) to achieve the same effect:

The Mage Happily Ignored
Pe(Re)Me 30
R: Voice, D: Diameter, T: Individual
This unusual spell causes the target to find something, anything, more interesting than the mage, while simultaneously destroying any peripheral awareness of the mage's presence. Thus, the target not only doesn't react to the caster, but actually never notices them in the first place, so "memory" never enters into the equation - the target remains completely and honestly unaware of the mage. Even later spells can detect no repressed or altered memory of the mage, for it never existed. The target may interact normally with others nearby who can see the mage, or who are even walking with the mage, but the target will neither acknowledge nor remember anything about the mage unless something overt forces them to become aware of that presence, for instance if a third party forcefully points them out, or certainly if the mage physically interacts with the target. Even then, the target will find the mage less than interesting, and have trouble focusing on them without good cause. The base effect of this spell addresses short-term memories only, so visits longer than Duration: Diameter risk failure of the desired effect.
(Base 10, +2 Voice, +1 Diameter, +1 requisite)

(I thought about adding another +1 magnitude "for complexity", but I thought that the requisite covered that more or less. Central Rule feeling.)

The thing I like about this is that the memory of the caster never exists in the first place, so no amount of magic can dig it out again.

I remember that the HoH: Societas Jerbiton chapter had some great ideas for guidelines for such a spell.

Ironically, the Sensory magic guidelines inner mystery makes Bjornaer the best magi for such subtle, area effect Mentem magic.

HoH: Mystery Cults has this spell in the Bjornaer Grimoire:

Closed Mouth of the Night Stalker
Base 10
R: Per D: Sun (+2) T: Spectacle (+4)
Anyone who sees the caster immediately forgets that he has done so.

This might be modified using Jerbiton spell construction.

There is a guideline in Jerbiton's Perdo Mentem Grimoire that destroys the ability of a target to recognise a certain category of thing.

Alternatively, perhaps a T: Structure PeMe would be able to mimic the spell above.

As the Thief in the Night
R: Touch D: Sun T: Structure + 1 complex trigger
Everyone within the target structure will be unable to remember seeing the caster if they do over the course of the day.

Due to the duration of "Sun," the spell is continuous over the course of the day, effecting everyone within the target at all times. Therefore, every time someone sees the caster, they immediately forget having done so.

This is identical to the Closed Mouth of the Night Stalker RAW spell, except that instead of effecting anyone who sees the caster anywhere over the course of the spell, only those within the structure are effected. This is more complex, IMO, as it requires the image of the caster to be contained within the spell itself, rather than using the image as its medium. This spell would be "Forget X" instead of "Forget me," adding + 1 to the complexity of the spell. At least, I think so.

Thought I'd give a reworking of this spell a go, based upon what I've read here, and my personal taste for the topic as covered. Overall the contention which arts and how much the caster can do in the affected area seem to be the points of discussion.

Ease of the Wandering Wizard
Rego Mentum 25
R: Touch, D: Diameter, T: Structure
Causes all affected targets within the structure to consider the caster as irrelevant and unimportant to them. Thus the caster can move through the area undisturbed as long as their actions remain calm and non-controversial to the targets.

Walking the hallways undisturbed is easy with this spell, but it could not be used to move past a guard who is meant to stop anyone who enters a door, as the disturbance is too acute to their specific purpose. A magus could however walk calmly past a guard only watching for trouble through, such as a guard on a postern gate.

To be clear, it is not as the targets do not see the caster, they may do, but they would not pay close attention. An Int test of 9+ to recall that a figure passed, and 12+ to recall the magi's appearance; which should be modified by factors such as high traffic areas, or odd appearance. A magus with controversial appearance would gain no assistance from this spell at this level.


  • base: r: Per, d: mom, t:ind; becomes: +1 range to Touch, +1 duration to Diameter, +3 Target to Structure
  • Base 3 as make a subtle change to the target's mental state.
  • and +1 complexity of ignoring only the caster,

As an extension, Wandering the Listless Castle might be a boosted version to have different degrees of impact depending on how far you want the unnoticed effect to stretch.

  • Bump the base effect from 3 to 5 to greatly influence a target, but not all out control the target. At this level the magus could walk through a guarded door. Final level would be 35 after mods.
  • To control the reactions fully it seems to be Base 10, where the targets would not react to anything except the most extreme circumstances, such as personal attack. Final level would be 40 after mods
  • Base 15 allows total control regardless of attack or injury. Would be a level 45 effect after mods.


Rego Mentem 25
Other that that, it looks rather reasonable. You might want to add a size modifier if you want to affect an entire castle as many (most?) are larger than a base structure. Otherwise I'm largely happy, especially with the built-in limitations.

Some of these would remove the +1 magnitude for complexity though.
Have you considered base 4: everyone in the structure falls asleep?

I was initially thinking of a spell a magus could use to pass unhindered through a city or keep, which is why I wanted something that would allow passage through, but not hinder or alert the mundanes. It seemed logical to muck around with the increased effects due to higher mag too, because a secondary nefarious version was too attractive not to suss out.
I like the idea of the slumber version, I can see that as a way to escape or enter somewhere when you don't care too about the ramifications of the spell.

The original goal of the spell first suggested in this thread was to get in and out unnoticed via Mentem - not at that moment, and not later. Many of the later solutions are fine for the former, but leave a distinct magical trail that would be hard to ignore. The trick is to get the job done without anyone noticing - ever.

Its a great problem to solve with mentem, and I can see a huge range of the applications for this. If increased enough it would be great to see a Mentem master walk boldly though a town, with the inhabitants moving aside with no direct awareness at all (Parting the Human Sea, ReMe45?). The Magus might get on the wrong side of the interfering with mundanes though, and hopefully no inhabitants are Magi or have MR.

It does start to get expensive in terms of the scores in Arts needed, vs using a PeIm spell to render yourself invisible, or a MuIm spell to alter your appearance. An alternate might be to invest this into a device and boost the penetration level, so that you pass easily regardless of the target.

I was thinking too that the Gift is not really taken into account in many of the descriptions in terms of the perception or feelings that the inhabitants might have, and a blatant Gifted Magus would really struggle with any method to remain inconspicuous.

The Gift is a handicap mainly only when interacting with others - this spell should, hopefully, preclude that in most situations.

There is a downside to almost every "simple" solution - invisibility has shadows, disguises require that the disguise is acceptable ("Wait - who is that?..."), etc. It's an exercise with specific parameters and goal - and, no, not an easy one.