I see. So I can target an effect I can't perceive if I'm still doing it as a discrete target? Parma, for instance, or if someone has an effect I can see the results of but am not currently perceiving with Vim (i.e. targeting the spell that's turning someone into a hawk if I think there is such an effect active)? (Not planning on dispelling Parma's all over the place but he is a hoplite).
yes, provided it is a valid perception, and not, for example, assuming every hawk is a person transformed. Also you have to have some vague idea of what caused the effect- is it a hawk beause someone cast a spell on them, because they have an enchanted item or skinchanger, or because of an inherent ability like lycanthrope, heartbeast, or shapeshifter. If you see someone cast a spell on them, no problem, you know. If you see a hawk acting oddly like a person you know, you can make a magic lore+per roll to get an idea, the same way you can make a hearing roll to locate the target behind a wall. Or of course you can use an intelligo effect...
My understanding, the way Threads work, the lowest level is base 10, +1 mag for sense of touch and +3 for details, which ends up being lvl 30 Unless taste is an acceptable sense but the idea of tasting a dead body... I guess I could possibly lower it by one magnitude and only notice magnitudes greater than 1 but then we're into mag 1 minus 2 territory for how the base is written since it relates to detecting negative threads rather than detecting threads at all.
it is very unlikely you would learn much- Minos doesn't know what level you attempted...
I attempted level 30 as that's the spell as written in the book, gives me the correct level of detail to discern a sigil, lets me feel any thread of magnitude 0 or greater. I realized as I was rolling how much of a fool's errand that was, even in a 0 aura I would have needed to roll 33 or more but I was already committed by what I had written so went ahead with it. If he has that spell as a formulaic one and his InVi total is near 50 he could likely cast it even with the aura (I know, lab total is usually more than casting total). I'm aware this is to some extent a test for Xene and we don't want to rely too much on Deus ex NPC (or would it be NPC ex Machina?) but I feel like getting no information from this might be a worse option.
Sorry, I moved the rules question to the "Spell Mechanics" Thread.
@silveroak I know you don't always like printed spells from splatbooks, I wanted to check if you're ok with Aura of Inconsequence (HH:TL 73). Both for itself and as a design framework for similar targeting.
That is fine.
Two proposals:
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ReCo spell that gives Flight; Base 15, Per/Conc/Ind - This exists in TME but it has a punitive finesse requirement, want to create a version without that.
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ReTe guidelines on HOH:S 38 for creating projectiles, currently caps at +15 damage for a Base 15 effect, Is this the most damaging such an effect can be, or does it go higher?
- I would allow a +1 magnitude for complex movement that would reduce but not eliminate the need for finesse rolls- you could change direction without them but doing so in non-ideal circumstances (like avoiding an obstacle, especially at high speed) would still require them.
- since a trebuchet can go up to +25 damage, I will allow magic to do the same by throwing rocks
Would you allow a Cr(Pe)Me spell that would replace a memory with one the caster made up, and when the duration ran out, leave no memory? (So creating a gap, but if the duration was long enough might just seem like natural forgetting?)
no.
What is the alternative? Two separate spells?
First we need to define the fact that the amount of memory that is changed is the target, how long it is changed for is the duration- the spell you describe seems to blur the distinctions. Guidelines for mutuum are either for "an event", a "period of their life" or "their entire life up to the present"
Perdo guidelines are for "a memory", a "long memory" and everything leaving the person a mindless husk, and do not line up evenly with Mu, so yes, it would need to be two different spells, and creating them to work together will likely be tricky- creo is a possibility, but it only has guidelines for "a memory", and extra levels for increase size are specifically not allowed.
I was not specifying a length for the memory because I was trying to establish the framework, which could apply to different levels of spells based on how "big" of a memory it effects.
I wasn't conflating target and duration; for a more specific example, I'm saying, a spell that creates a memory of a conversation, duration Moon; and destroys the original memory of the conversation; so when the spell wears off rather than remembering what really happened there is just no memory. My discussion of gap was just saying that under the circumstances of the above situation, a person might not think anything odd had happened, they just don't remember the conversation.
I take it that doesn't work because you think the effects are too discrete?
In terms of CrMe, the rule that size doesn't apply is specific to saying that minds don't have a size; conceivably memories could have a size? Or if not, a memory for Creo purposes is just any single cohesive memory?
It seems to me that it would be possible to "overwrite" a memory with a cr(Pe)Me spell which would have a +1 magnitude effect of leaving both memories gone (but the memory of the memory present, as with other CrMe spells) when the duration ends. Realistically they would have the memory of both memories, but while under the effect they would not be likely to think about having had the prior memory, and thus it would be less distinct, but still potentially able to be recalled. This would be a rather extraordinary situation though, and not something that would happen spontaneously without some unforeseen virtue or quality or similar feature coming into play (for example, affecting a faerie's memory in a way that defines their role might result in some form of 'rebound' effect)
Makes sense, though there is mention of expiring CrMe leaving a memory of having the memory, but I don't see a similar reference in PeMe - though I can see the logic of it. What about the issue of "size"; ie wanting to target a longer period of time to overwrite?
Muto suggests that targeting more time should mean an increase in base difficulty rather than size modifiers, Perdo follows similar rules with less refinement, and creo simply does not have guidelines for increased amount of time. Figuring out where other tie based guidelines lie should be a relatively minor breakthrough...
@silveroak do you hold that finesse-based attack spells (i.e. Deadly Sling of Vilano) gain Attack-Advantage damage?