Spell to check and doubt about RM from Forms

I was making one variant to feeel the Gift on others, but the Greater Arts too. It's one testing spell, to measure the power from one rival or apprentice. The base would be 10, +1 Eye, +1 concentration, +2 to extra information (+1 to Hermetic and +1 to Arts); to a total level 30 Intellego Vim.

My que3stion, the apprentince after Openning the Arts got MR 0 or gretaer for his Arts?

Aside from this being scrying (and thus against the Code), how would this work?
Arts are (to me) as much or more about knowledge and understanding, as about some mystical characteristica. So that would be Mentem I guess, not Vim.

Same as for an adult magus: (Parma Magica *5)+Form Score. Meaning that just after the Opening of the Arts, apprentices would generally have MR 0 against most effects. Which is oceans better than no MR mind you.
Please note that many magi will extend their Parma Magica to cover their apprentice as well, thus providing MR based on the competence of the master.

First. Could add one Mentem requisite yes, but this is not exactly "know their knoledge", but I am interpreting (Maybe too literal), the 10 Base guidleine about sense the Gift and “detect the traces of powerful magic”; and that base can be up-graded with the "add information: +1 Hermetic, +2 the Arts used", just than this feel the greatert Technique + Form from one. Of course, It's scrying, but it can be used by the parens about to check the approximate advance of his apprentice, against one enemy like one marched magus or while Wizard's War. And like other times, if the scryer isn't discovered doing it, I think than this still being usefull.

My question is about if before the Parma magica would be fully understood, the apprentices got from their Arts, I can't find any clue on Apprentices; I can imagine than without Parma there are not Magic Resistance at all, or there are some from the Forms indeed.

From the text under the header 'Magic Resistance', above the 'Parma Magica' header, in the core book, p. 85, I'd argue that apprentices have MR based on their forms, without need for Parma Magica.

Ok thank you. That make rogue apprentices more dangerous to the Hermetic monopoly over Magic resistance. Thanks again to both.

The monopoly is Parma Magica. All traditions have magic resistance, it's innate related to the underlying Form knowledge, but when compared to a Hermetic magus it is quite weak, and it's only specific to the Forms that they know. This is the resistance of an Apprentice. So, even an extreme case where an apprentice has scores in excess of 10 in a Form only gives them an MR of 10+ for that specific Form.

Ah... Nope. They got some kind of Defenses, nobody of them has any Magic Resistance, only Divine sources or Infernal effects can grant some extent of Magic Resistance, all other Magical and Faeric wizards are unprotected. That is explained about the "Limit of Magic resistance".

That's not ringing any bells to me (Limit of Magic Resistance). But, taking it at face value, it's still not a big deal for the case of a rogue Hermetic apprentice, which was my primary point. So, I'll withdraw my statement that all traditions have resistance based on their form.

Ok. But It's stated that there opposite is explained any time than the hedge Arts are explained, they are note protected by any kind of MR at all.
From HMTRE page 9 and 10:

Repeated over and over thtough any book with Hedge Traditions.

I said I took it at face value as being true. Thanks for pointing out from where it came.

This, quite simply isn't true, whether hedge traditions have magic resistance or not. Without training their MR is very low. Depending upon the Age of the apprentice and where they are in their Hermetic training, they will have pretty low resistance, which can be overcome by Hermetic Magi. Therefore, there is no danger to the Hermetic monopoly of MR.

My english is not very good, so I can't understand some expressions.
If every books say than there are no MR to wizards outside the order, Infernal effects or Divine things like Relics, Faith and some Holly Powers, I understand than outside exactly that. And yes, the Penetration to Apprenticces is simple, but there are no need on Hedge Wizards, than they are not part of the objective of this spell.

It is interesting to note that the opening of the gift by a Hermetic magus automatically grants general MR. I wonder then why parma is required to protect from the effects of the gift?


Probably more accurate to say that Hermetic Magic provides resistance to a broad range of Forms, although the language for Vim effectively provides a general MR...
So, one can say that the effects of the Gift aren't a function of any particular Form, even Vim.

We can think that, or than witout the Parma Magica score at least to 1 and the final secret reveled after Gauntlet, there are no Magic resistance at all; but there are no need to be Opened to gain the advanteg of Parma, only to be Gifted, and to learn the ability.

Thanks to all by your opinions.