Spells designed to be held while doing other things

[LuciusT]

I was going over some spell and just noticed something odd...

The spell Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork says: "This spell is designed to be held while you do something else, so the magus gets a +3 bonus to all Concentration rolls." Ths leads to the obvious question... if I can design Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork in this way, why couldn't (and wouldn't) I design ANY Concentration spell in the same way?

I think I'm about to have a house rule reducing the ease factors for sustaining Concentration spells by 3.

[Galdric]

I think I'm about to have a house rule reducing the ease factors for sustaining Concentration spells by 3.

I did exactly the same thing when I found out about The Patient Spell from MoH, where...

Maintaining concentration on The Patient Spell while casting another spell requires an Intelligence + Concentration roll against an Ease Factor of 9 to perform successfully; this is easier than normal, because the spell is designed for this use".

I would also like to know if there is any justification for doing this for free...

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@Galdric

I think I'm about to have a house rule reducing the ease factors for sustaining Concentration spells by 3.

I did exactly the same thing when I found out about The Patient Spell from MoH, where...

Maintaining concentration on The Patient Spell while casting another spell requires an Intelligence + Concentration roll against an Ease Factor of 9 to perform successfully; this is easier than normal, because the spell is designed for this use".

I would also like to know if there is any justification for doing this for free...

Apart from the fact that it is done in these two instances?

Both spells are of course pretty useless unless the caster can make a concentration roll. Patient Spell is a bit less open than +3 to all concentration rolls (it only gets an effective +3 bonus to the roll for casting another spell)

Both are vim spells, the form where you can cast two spells in the same round with an appropriate concentration roll.

I'd give the bonus if the spell necessitates it and it is a vim spell. Central rule and all, the guidelines are just that guidelines not rules.

[Richard_Love]

@LuciusT

The spell Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork says: "This spell is designed to be held while you do something else, so the magus gets a +3 bonus to all Concentration rolls." Ths leads to the obvious question... if I can design Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork in this way, why couldn't (and wouldn't) I design ANY Concentration spell in the same way?

As Erick says, I think the key is that the spells are useless without being able to concentrate is the basic justification. I would be prepared to let any spell with a similar use get a +3 Concentration bonus (so, many of the Vim guidelines, if invented as Concentration Duration would be good candidates). I wouldn't allow it for just any random Concentration Duration spell --- I wouldn't allow it for a Creo Ignem "nuke stuff" at Concentration Duration spell, for example.

A further wrinkle is whether the bonus applies to Spontaneous Casting. I would be tempted to say no, it only applies to Formulaic casting. This is because a Spontaneous spell hasn't been designed at all, let alone designed with a specific use in mind.

[Tugdual]

@Richard Love

A further wrinkle is whether the bonus applies to Spontaneous Casting. I would be tempted to say no, it only applies to Formulaic casting. This is because a Spontaneous spell hasn't been designed at all, let alone designed with a specific use in mind.

I wouldn't, because a Spontaneous spell is so designed on-the-fly that you can change R/T/D after rolling it. In fact, I would say the lower EF is because your Concentration is on the same Target as the spell. If you push that way, casting a second spell on a rock you are keeping up with Levitation of the Ominous Stone should be easier. And that doesn't seem bad at all.

[LuciusT]

@Richard Love

@LuciusT

The spell Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork says: "This spell is designed to be held while you do something else, so the magus gets a +3 bonus to all Concentration rolls." Ths leads to the obvious question... if I can design Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork in this way, why couldn't (and wouldn't) I design ANY Concentration spell in the same way?

As Erick says, I think the key is that the spells are useless without being able to concentrate is the basic justification.

Well, as a counterpoint to that, the rules for Concentration (core rules, page 82) specifically state:

Note that, of a spell is designed to let the magus do something, doing that thing does not interfere with concentration on the spell.

So, combining that with your arguement, should Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork require a concentration roll at all? Should other "meta-magic" spells?

[Tugdual]

@LuciusT

Well, as a counterpoint to that, the rules for Concentration (core rules, page 82) specifically state:

Note that, of a spell is designed to let the magus do something, doing that thing does not interfere with concentration on the spell.

So, combining that with your arguement, should Supressing the Wizard's Handiwork require a concentration roll at all? Should other "meta-magic" spells?

That rule is for a spell affecting itself. Unseen Arm does not require a Concentration roll when concentrating on moving the Target of Unseen Arm.