Spells Questions

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

  1. can you make a spell with which you could choose either Touch or Personal when you cast it?

  2. what would be the stats for a Perdo Auram spell to create a vacuum in a) an area, & b) centered on a creatures head?
    This would be for range voice, duration concentration... Could this ignore a critters magic resistance?

  3. what would the effect be on the level of a spell if you wished to make it duration sun, or until you cancel it?

  4. What would the effect of a 35th level spell be to take a group/room area, and make the area as hot as possible?
    (Range voice, duration concentration) Would it melt steel? How much damage would it do to someone standing in a stone room?

  5. What level would 'Charge of the angry winds' spell be with range sight, target boundary?

  6. How bright would y'all say a level 35 spell (duration day, range touch) be that only created light?

  7. magically creating light (creo ignem?) Is this ALWAYS light radiating from a point?
    Or could it be an area that just glows (no shadows) that would even glow on the other side of a wall?

2

  1. Formulaic and ritual spells don’t normally allow that kind of flexibility, but if the character has a virtue that allows him to adjust the parameters of formulaic spells (Flexible Formulaic Magic, Boosted Magic, Mutantum Magic) he could use them. On a related note however, between the form/technique and similar spell bonuses it shouldn’t be too hard to create versions of the spell with different ranges. Note that Boosted Magic is available as a Mastery Ability (HoH: TL), but requires the expenditure of a pawn of Vis each time you cast the spell with the enhanced range.

  2. Well the exact level would depend upon the size of the area you choose, but “Room of Stale Air” ArM5 pg 128 is a pretty close approximation. You’d just have to increase the level to 20 for Concentration. The rules for Auram spells are funny, but I’d advise you against trying to use Partial target and have the player make a Finesse roll instead to target the effect. Since only MR or targeting can apply to a spell, the spell would bypass MR. NOTE: Air destruction is one of the examples described on page 86 under “Aiming” - last line.

  3. If the spell is a Muto Corpus spell the duration is the same as “Sun”. Otherwise it’s not possible. Unless the character has the virtue “Harnessed Magic” in which case the spell’s duration is still the same as “Sun” (Mutantes, the magus who invented most of the Order’s shapechanging magic had that virtue…). Harnessed Magic is also available as a Mastery Ability (HoH: TL).

  4. Assuming you mean 35th level after factoring in range, duration and target. According to the Creo Ignem guidelines a level 10 fire inflicts +15 damage (or +10 in an unnatural shape). This seems a bit excessive for a heat spell though… Here’s what I’d do - “Melt Lead” requires a base level of 10 on the Creo Ignem chart. Consulting the “Heat and Corrosion Table” (ArM5 pg 181) we see that "Molten Lead" inflicts +9 damage so that’s what I’d use for resolving damage. Alternately, you could just use the same damage you'd use for a fire, see above.

  5. +1 magnitude to increase the Range and +4 to increase the Target so 40th level (Level 15 Spell + 5 magnitudes [25 levels] of modifications).

  6. Assuming again that you mean after factoring in RDT, I’d say a level 20 Creo Ignem light would be pretty bright. Considering that level 5 in equivalent to sunlight on a clear day, it’ very, very bright! Note that according to the Perdo Corpus guidelines, a Base Level of 20 is sufficient to destroy a major sense…

  7. According to the description of the “Lamp without Flame”spell the illumination from that spell has no apparent source, so there’s no reason why your spell shouldn’t be the same.

Gremlin44

Editted - I missed the Target modifier on Question 4... :blush: I fixed it though.

3

You're always considered to be touching yourself. If you mean have it be 1 magnitude easier to cast at personal than it is at touch, no, that's two spells, although you can use MuVi, I think, to achieve such effects.

It wouldn't ignore MR, but, sadly, that's irrelevant... I believe all canonical sources suggest that a creature with might does not need to breathe. And that wouldn't affect a dragon's fiery breath in the Medieval paradigm, either, I don't think.

Huh, a quick scan of my core book doesn't give me a good reference for this one. My knee-jerk is either to be nice and assume that a magus can always voluntarily end a spell before the duration is up, or to be mean and say that once the spell is cast, it's cast, and a magus can only end it by dispelling it.

Well, voice is +2, conc is +1, group/room is +2, so you can manage a base Level 10 CrIg effect. The guidelines for that are "create a fire doing +15 damage", or "create a fire doing +10 damage in an unnatural shape". So, one of those two seems like a good choice.

Sight is one magnitude harder than voice. Boundary is four magnitudes harder than individual. So, 25 more levels on top of the spell's 15 means a level 40 spell.

Given that you're talking a level 20 base effect, and the guideline for level 5 CrIg is a bright day, I'd probably say level 20 is a constant flash-bang... definitely not something you'd want to look straight at.

Well, the light creation rules always assume target ind. It also gets a little weird because of the Medieval Paradigm's concept of light... I'd want to check out the Jerbiton section of Societates to refresh my memory on species and light. My gut reaction is that a target of group or room, or just some size magnitude levels, would be proper to make a larger area glow with light.

4

No

If you're thinking about creating a momentary vacuum that has the air collapse around the target creating a sort of implosion ala rolemaster I'd imagine that most storyguides would say that this is a no-go. I'm certain that your's would.

If you've got harnessed magic (like Jeff's character) it's no problem. If not then you'd be wise to take an appropriate "unraveling the fabric of (form) " spell. (there are some exceptions for personal range muto corpus spells but these are exceptions)

Realize that a target group spell and a target room spell are two different spells that would have to be learned separately.

Range voice is two magnitudes, duration concentration is one magnitude, target group is two magnitudes. So you'd be able to use the base 10 guideline. Hot enough to ignite human bodies and melt lead

moving up from voice to sight is one magnitude, changing from individual to boundary is four more. you'd get a level 40 spell. The spell would also be a ritual requiring eight pawns of vis and two hours to cast. All target boundary spells are rituals.

one magnitude for touch two magnitudes for sun (I assume you mean sun rather than day) means that you're creating light at base 20. Bright sunlight on a clear day is base five. This is preposterously bright

Throw in a one magnitude bump for being unnatural and I think that it's OK

Now I'm going to see if everyone else answered the same as me. :slight_smile:

5

  1. Vacum isn't really possible in Mythic Europe. Stale air yes, and even better a deadly gas (A MuAu effect loved by a maga in my saga).

  2. That would require an item (use concentration duration, and item maintains concentration) or virtues as mentioned by another post.

  3. Creo spells doesn't work with a room target, but filling an area simply means using a larger individual. But puting 2 magnitudes into size does effectivly the same as target individual, so as mentioned before - you melt lead. This isn't nearly hot enough to melt steel though, you'd probably need another magnitude for that. Damage will be minimal the first round, but will increase as it works its way through clothing. Will probably max out at +8 or so.

  4. As mentioned it would be level 40. It would also take 2 hours to cast, and require a boundary to work.

  5. A sensible magus would toss in a modifier for variable light (probably at +1), and you'd still have about the same radiance that looking strait into the face of God has...

  6. Depends on how the spell was designed. There doesn't have to be a center point.

6

I don't see any problem with a creo spell that raises the temperature of a room with room target.

The restriction on targets of creo spells is specifically limited to spells that create things. I don't think that heating something is creating a thing in a way that makes it subject to the restriction.

7

1) can you make a spell with which you could choose either Touch or Personal when you cast it?
[Got it. I was thinking about a Flying spell that can be cast to get my wizard quickly to safety. If I wanted to be able to cast it on others I would just need to create two spells!

2) what would be the stats for a Perdo Auram spell to create a vacuum in a) an area, & b) centered on a creatures head?
This would be for range voice, duration concentration... Could this ignore a critters magic resistance?
[I was thinking simply the absence of air – a vacuum. I am sure someone could do the math, but there would be NO violent implosion/explosion since a) it is not period, & b) a sudden vacuum would just not do that. Taking duration Sun I was just assuming that area would have no air – and the surrounding area would be unaffected. Ie – NO rushing in of air. I found on page 86 of the core rules that a mage could create a vacuum around someone, and it would bypass the MR. Of course, if the victim thinks, they could just leave the area…]

3) what would the effect be on the level of a spell if you wished to make it duration sun, or until you cancel it?
[Erik – would you allow ‘harnessed’ as a spell mastery option?]

4) What would the effect of a 35th level spell be to take a group/room area, and make the area as hot as possible?
(Range voice, duration concentration) Would it melt steel? How much damage would it do to someone standing in a stone room?
[Got it about the group/room thingy! Also THANKS for the idea of making it gradual! I was thinking about a spell that effects an area, and could heat up stuff to start iron melting & flammables to inflame. If’n something has MR in this area I was think it could be effected by the heat from burning/melting things & their fumes. AND a duration day on this cast into a stone room would make an awesome forge :wink: AND a cold version would make a great source of ice & preserving foods]

5) What level would 'Charge of the angry winds' spell be with range sight, target boundary?
[Ritual? Ouch damn…. 2 hours?? Shoot]

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8

Why doesn't ARS have actual sizes for areas & ranges & targets for spells?
Of course a Storyguide will say if something is too big or little... but then goes the back and forth between the SG & players with 'does it work now? is it in range yet? and I see this just breaking up the flow of the game!

9

So... How would a spell be created for a 20' radius cube, or a 30' radius sphere?
Would it be group, room, etc? How does one create a spell so the area can effect a large polar bear? Could the spell just be made to target a part so size no longer matters?

10

Well, it doesn't really make too much of a difference - except that the spell with individual target can be used outdoors or in a larger room (to heat only part of it. But, you are making heat, so that does fall under creating stuff.

11

The only range which might be in question is voice (you either see something or you don't, and likevise with touch). For voice, there are suggested ranges given in the book, not quite sure, but I think it was 15 paces (/yards/meters) for normal voice and 50 paces for shouting. Can't recall whispers - which means it might have been 50 for normal and 15 for whispers... (Big serfs parma)

For size of targets, just look at the forms. And yea, something might be in question, but then the answer from the Storyteller should probably be "You're not sure - do you want to try?"

This depends on the form.
For animal, a large polar bear would probably require a +1 size modification (or just use a spell with a group target).
For Ignem, the bear would be affected no matter how small the flame is - it gets burned no matter what.
Oh, and if you need a nice D&D style fireball ("Elminister's Fiery Wrath"), simply add +1 to size to get a fireball that can be no larger than a small room... (10 times the size of a large fireplace fire)

12

In fact Ars does have actual sizes. They're tightly defined, not open to much debate and significantly more cool than a 20' sphere.

I'll have to say that the ranges, targets and durations in the game have not yet ever caused a disagreement at my table. They're much more precisely defined than you give them credit for.

It Depends on the form. Spheres and cubes seem to me to likely be individuals or parts, possibly with size modifiers.

Target the polar bear individual +1 size

target part spells can effect a target only up to the size of a standard individual (without a size modifier)

13

You very likely can easily get a arcane connection to yourself, you know your own true name, if you have a strong parma you could carry around a birth horoscope for yourself. Penetrating your own magic resistance with a range touch spell shouldn't be that hard.

14

Yes, but would you want to? Not if you're paranoid! What if you lost said items, or they were stolen or found by an enemy. That would suck vacuum!

15

Hmmmm... So what would the Arcane Connections be, and how strong would they be, to cast a spell from yourself TO yourself...

Wouldn't it kinda be ALL of them at the HIGHEST strength???

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16

Salvete Sodales!

Contrary to the dominating opinion here (no you can't, unless you hve certain virtues) I think, it hould be possible, to create a spell in teh lab that allows for such flexibility. Somewhere in the rules there was this passage that formulaic/ritual spells don't always have to follow the strict guidelines. As SG I would allow the spell but would raise the level one magnitude above that of Range: Touch and demand roll on the discovery chart without giving any benefit to the lab total (bending old Bonisagus' rules might lead to uncommon results beyond the planned one). But this ruling uses a gray area of the rules, so it is up to a SG/troupe decision.

Vale,
Alexios ex Miscellanea

17

  1. Is there a spell you could use to change the TYPE of Vis?

  2. Perdo Vim: On page 160 in the box for Perdo Vim Guidelines, under General:, it states "Reduce a target's Might by the level of the spell +10..."
    a) This does not seem to specify, so can it be assumed that this works REGARDLESS of the Realm the creatures is from?
    b) Why does the spell 'Demon's Oblivion' NOT take into account the additional "level of the spell +10..."??

PLEASE for 2) above include rules citations, or just state that there is none!

THANK Y'ALL!!!

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18
  1. Not using hermetic magic which is subject to the Limit of Vis (ArM pg 80). This is because Vis' form correspondence is part of its essential nature and cannot normally be changed by hermetic magic. Grigori Magic from "Ancient Magic" does something similar to what you describe by allowing you to substitute certain forms of Vis for each other, but even then you'd be restricted to a few interchangeable forms of Vis.
    (Citation - Ancient Magic, pg 67; ArM5 pg 80).

2A. The applicable guideline works regardless of the Realm of the subject creature, but a single spell can only affect Divine, Faerie, Infernal or Magic might, not all four.
(Citations - the guidelines in the corebook are ambiguous on the subject, however, in Guardians of the Forest Phillipus Niger (pg 60) can be seen to possess apotropaic (might draining) spells affecting Faerie and Magic creatures as well as demons. Furthermore, Wards which similarly target the subject's Might are connected to its Realm affiliation quite firmly in the core book (Rego Vim Guidelines, ArM5, pg 161).

2B. The +10 is spent increasing range to Voice (+2).
(Citation - ArM5, pg 160 "Demon's Eternal Oblivion".

Editted to add Citations & fulfill own grammar/spelling standards.

19

"2A. The applicable guideline works regardless of the Realm of the subject creature, but a single spell can only affect Divine, Faerie, Infernal or Magic might, not all four"


Could you tell me where this is in the rules? 
Even 'roughly' would be just fine...


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20

:blush: I only just noted your request for citations and was busy adding them when you posted your response. See my original post. My response to 2A is a bit ambiguous, but does seem to be how most SGs handle it.