Stacking of bonuses from Virtue?

I pondered this before but this thread reminded me.

I vaguely recall earlier editions having some kind of cap on the bonus from Virtues - can anyone help me out if there is something to it?

The question is how this goes for 5th edition? Especially concerning how to handle the many virtues granting a doubling of the lowest art - do you keep doubling, start tripling or quadrupling, or do you keep seeing what Art is lowest and thus get to double both Tech, Form and requisites? Or do they simply just cancel each other out leaving the benefit at one x2 of one Art?

They are specifically stated to stack.
Verditius Elder Runes and Cthonic Magic both stack with a Magical Focus.
Lowest Art Score is x03 in both cases.

Ahh - just found the respective RAWs. I guess the same then goes for Focus and Diedne as well. Terrifying!

Still hoping for answers on the other two questions. General cap, though I guess there is none if there isnt on the foci etc, and the one from earlier editions.

the one that scares me is focus, and two applicable Verditious elder runes. lower art times 3 higher art times 2, add in a bunch of lab, philosophae, lab assistant and craft score bonuses then make duplicates from the lab notes and hand them out to grogs so that you can activate the effect multiple times per round.

There was a specific cap in fourth edition. (I decided to waive it by SG fiat once and let someone play a character who took the tough virtue seven times. Live and learn :blush: )

I had asked about stacking Cyclic Magic , but both here and the Berklist were rather lacking in response.
It seems easy to work Cycles that stack , with Astrology , for the ones given anyway.
Though i'm not sure i could find 10 mystical cycles that would acceptably stack ,
to get an overlap where you get a +30 bonus.

LMAO!!!! :laughing: :laughing: THAT is a tough guy. Did he justify it saying he was a golem or something?


With a +21 bonus to Soak , he was probably descended from Balder.

Though i do not see a prohibition against taking the Tough Virtue 10x for a +30 bonus to Soak (in 5th Ed).

As an unscrupulous magus , should such a person exist ,
i would put an enchanted collar on him , with constant effect ,
that would transform him into a comfy set of robes.
His essential nature being unchanged , i would have robes giving +30 Soak.

Can youn take the same virtue 2+ times? I thought V&F were a 1 time occurrance (you can select only 1 of each V&F).



With a few exceptions such as Great or Poor Characteristics, Ways of the (Land), Social Contacts etc and a few others.

The rest are a one time offer.

Something i have gleaned from the Wizards Boards is ,
"that if something is not specifically prohibited , then it must be ok"
(not that this is the games intent , but DnD does have specific rules regarding what type of bonus does or does not stack)

Some Virtues have a definite limit , such as Affinity or Puissant
and you are specifically allowed only 05 Minor Flaws (page 36).

Is there an actual statement in the RAW regarding Virtues (apart from only one Major Hermetic , and so on)?

God, that should be prohibited.

What is happening? 6 times the same message!?

Not as if it was done deliberately though.
All i was getting was an IE error message.

It comforts me that I'm not the only one having a lot of problems with the connection to the Forum these days. I'm getting buggered with writing long posts and then having the text vaporize prior to posting :imp:

The approach that anything goes if not explicitly forbidden only invites to rampant abuse. And since some V&F specify that they can be taken multiple times should reason that the rest can't. Moreso the descriptions of the V&F and logic of the system really doesnt invite to thinking that you can multiply them.

Well - may be I should just take blind 3 times for the character that I've got in development atm... :laughing:

I don't think that there is. Althoiugh I think that it is clear that the same virtue should not be taken more than once except in special cases such as affinity with art.

(I took the liberty of deleting your five superfluous posts. I hope that this was OK.)

Hurrah! The first 'Spaminator' in action! :smiley:

Some Virtues and Flaws are obvious in whether they stack or not.
Lame (page 55) could be taken twice , once for each leg.
But it is not the same as Crippled (page 52) , which is obvious in being able to only be taken once.

Apt Student (page 40) could be taken 10x , adding +50 to Study Total.
In practice it would be capped by the Master's score in Ability being taught or the teacher's score in the Art or Ability (page 164)

Unless it reduced my Status , of course i have no objections. :slight_smile:
Does this mean i should send messages about Spam to you direct , or just keep sending them to Wendy?

As eric pointed out, if it is not stated in the V&F, you cannot take it more than once. You cannot be lame for both legs, for example, since then you would be a cripple. Lame implies that one of your legs works properly. If you want to stack them, fine, but it is SG fiat, not the rules of ArM5. I do that all the time, buit I have never applies it to to V&F. A +20 bonus to the quality of tractatus you read (for example) or a +60 bonus to invent stuff in the lab seems excessive to me :wink:



You may send them to me.

Ok then , viewtopic.php?t=2088 , but otherwise i will send an email.