Stacking Virtues & Flaws after character creation?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Some Virtues (& Flaws) are "stackable", in the sense you can take them more than once and their effects just "add up": for example Great Intelligence X 2 and Weak Strength X 2. Note that I am not talking about Virtues and Flaws that you can take more than once to affect different aspects of the character, such as Affinity with two different abilities.

Now, there are a lot of ways in ArM5 to gain Virtues & Flaws, either permanently (e.g. Initiations and Ordeals, Warping) or temporarily (e.g. Faerie Wizardry, Maleficia, the powers of Gruagach, Learned Magicians, and various supernatural beings). I was wondering: can you just use the same "means" twice on a stackable Virtue/Flaw?

The answer could obviously be very different depending on the means. I would not allow the same Initiation script to be re-used, but I would allow two different Initiations to "stack". Warping ... well, stacking seems a good possibility. Faerie Wizardry or Maleficia? I guess that should stack; after all, the warping effect also stacks, if the Virtues are long-term. Gruagach or Learned Magician powers ... hmm, I'd be tempted to require two different spells/charms. The inherent powers of supernatural beings? I guess it depends on a case-by-case basis, but in general I do not see any reason to disallow stacking.

Hmm. So I guess that in general my answer would be "yes they stack" but if the Virtue Flaw is obtained through some specific "formula" then only different formulas stack. Opinions?

2

That sounds eminently reasonable. :slight_smile:

3

For those means which can give permanent Virtues, like initiations, Twilight experiences and such, then I would say you can stack those virtues that are stackable.
For Initiations you would obviously have to use different Ordeals, unless the Flaw involved also happens to be stackable.
For temporary virtues, like those you can get from Learned Magician charms, I'd rule that you can't stack them. Being able to grant temporary virtues is powerful enough as it is, being able to stack them that easily would be pushing it over the line into too powerful in my opinion.

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4

I would say that permanent virtues can be stacked on, while temporary cannot- so if I have 3 levels of the permanent virtue I can still get one level of the temporary, but can't add extra temporary levels. Depending on the virtue of course.

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5

I would say yes, but this really is a matter of "discuss with your troupe". (I once played a Bjornaer with Presence +4 and one level of quiet magic, and was arguing with our alpha SG about whether I could self-initiate "Great Presence" and "Quiet magic" again when the saga ended, so we never did settle the question.)