Stephanos Hephaistoi, Venditor of Vulcanus (development)

This is a good point

In that case, the problem is with the Mustering Out rules, not with the virtue per se, and you should petition for similar PG cycle rules, not for a change about how things operate in game.

Thing is, IMO, the error was in giving cycle vis to redcaps in the first place.
It follows logically than, the older they are, the weaker non-redcap companions with a major social virtue (magister in artibus, Senior Clergy, Venditores, Landed Noble) are compared to a a redcap of the same age. Take a look at some of these, and compare them to redcaps, and to redcaps with some cycles under their belts.

Give me three days...
Keep the discussion going, it is giving me a bearing...

There are 2 points:

  • Are Major Social virtues balanced against each other? We talked about Venditor vs Redcap, but we could have taken any of the others. IMO, the answer is no, although that balance also depends on the game: The more mundane the game, the more powerful things Landed Noble or Senior Clergy will be. OTOH, a game where what matters are personnal ressources and XP greatly favors Redcaps and Magisters in Artibus. IMO, usually, redcap is above the rest, though.

  • The impact of Mustering Out: Assuming we agree on the Major Social virtues, this further imbalances things in the Redcap's favor: Give a redcap 2 cycles and, aside from XP, he'll have amassed vis, items, whatever, whereas any other companion will only gain more XP.

I agree that it's a act of futility to try and balance out Major Virtues, especially with Redcap. In my opinion, even the changes I have recommended would keep Venditor weaker that Redcap, and I'm completely okay with that. My initial issue was that Venditor is actually on par with other MINOR virtues. By the rules, Venditor gives 50 xp that can be used on 5 different skills plus living languages as well as access to Academic abilities. By contrast, Warrior, a minor virtue, gives 50 xp that can be used on any martial ability as well as access to Martial abilities. At best these two virtues are equal, and it could even be argued that Warrior is superior. That is the issue I'm trying to rectify, not make it equal to Redcap. Redcap was just a decent major virtue to use as a guide.

Mind you, I originally set it up so that Redcaps were equal (more or less) to magus level characters, because we had this whole "Redcap side-saga" and like 3 or 4 people were playing Mythic Redcaps.
But things worked out differently :laughing:
No saga/campaign is ever 100% what it was planned. It is organic and takes on a life of its own :smiley:

So you are saying we need to tone Redcaps down? Perhaps, but we have two of them in play now. Perhaps we should consult them?
I have some ideas I will be posting before dawn. I slept all day today and am only now awake and moving. Massive wicked cold. Horrible. Small periods of awake, such as taking a hot-hot shower. Feeling slightly better now. I was just incapacitated all day.

Oh, sure, we do agree venditor is a "lame" major, no problem :wink:
Maybe simply make it a minor virtue?

@Marko: Agree about Redcap, as it is, it is, IMO, fine for Mythic Companions, as well as the Mustering for them. The problem only comes for "normal" companions.
=> Maybe the solution is as simple as leaving the vis from mustering to magus-level characters, whether they're magi, hedge wizards or mythic companions?
Or have "lesser" rules for companions, where they don't get vis, but a some BP to spend on some ressources like items, LR, stuff like that?

:frowning: :frowning: Bad for you :frowning: Keep warm, sleep a lot, and drink hot soup. I'm... A little angry, because I'd just tell you to go to the doctor, but, unless I'm wrong, it does cost a lot in the US, no? If I am, or you've got a good... insurance? Health Fund? go consult before it gets worse.

I don't think I "mustered out" Tiana... I think I just gave her the normal Redcap complement of magic items.

Venditor as written seems fine as a lesser virtue. They have no standing within the Order (Redcap) nor in any other social arena (Landed Noble, Magister).

While they should certainly have access to a LR, I can't see them getting outfitted with magic gear the way a Redcap would. How's this?

Venditor (minor): You are in the employ of a Verditius magus, and may take academic abilities at character creation. You should have scores of at least 3 in Bargain, Magic Theory, and in Order of Hermes Lore, and receive 50 exp towards these skills. You are guaranteed a longevity ritual by your employer, but your position is not formally recognized by the Order.

I'm not sold on them having access to Magic Theory because I don't want venditores abused as lab assistants, but they SHOULD know how magic items work.

(commenting on my comment about being sick...

I am just a wage slave and everything is out of pocket. Laws are changing soon though.
But still, an outpatient general practitioner will cost 60 dollars, he'll tell me I have a cold and to sleep a lot and have some hot soup. There is no cure for the common cold, and I am almost over it.
:smiley:

Good to know :smiley:

I'd be cool with calling it a minor virtue, and just using the text as written in HoH:MC.

Works for me :smiley:

Okay, final version of Stephanos, with Venditor now being a minor virtue...

Stephanos Hephaistoi

Statistics

Characteristics: Int +1, Per +1, Pre +2, Com +2, Str +1, Sta +1, Dex 0, Qui 0
Size: 0
Age: 29
Height: 5’11
Weight: 180#
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0
Confidence: 1(3)

Faerie Sympathy: Iron 2

Virtues:

Venditor (Adventure, 20xp)
Affinity: Bargain
Eye of Hephaestus
Faerie Blood (Faerie God: Hephaistos)
Faerie Legacy
Improved Characteristics
Privileged Upbringing
Social Contacts (Merchants)
Venus' Blessing

Flaws:

Black Sheep
Driven (Major)
Lesser Malediction (Ability Block: Crafts)
Reckless

Personality Traits and Reputation

Gregarious +3
Impatient +1
Energetic +1

Reputation:

Disgrace of the Hephaistoi Family: -2

Combat:

Sword of Hephaistos: Initiative +2, Attack +13, Defense +7, Damage +12
Partial Heavy Leather Armor: Soak: +3
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, –1, –3, –5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: –1 (1-5), –3 (6-10), –5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+)

Abilities:

Area Lore: Greece (Geography) 3
Area Lore: Arabia (Geography) 2
Artes Liberales (Arithmetic) 3 [Latin, Greek, Arabic scripts]
Athletics (Running) 2
Awareness (Alertness) 4
Bargain (Silk) 5
Brawl (Punches) 2
Carouse (Staying Sober) 2
Charm (Being Witty) 4
Chirurgy (Binding Wounds) 1
Dead Language: Latin (Hermetic Usage) 2
Etiquette (Nobility) 3
Folk Ken (Nobles) 2
Single Weapon (Long Sword) 4
Guile (Fast Talk) 3
Hunt (Tracking) 1
Living Language: Romaic Greek (Native) 5
Living Language: Mediterranean Lingua Franca (Western, Eastern) 4
Living Language: Arabic (Trading) 3
Living Language: German (Bavarian) 3
Order of Hermes Lore (Verditius) 2
Ride (Speed) 3
Survival (Forest) 1

Wondrous Item:
Sword of Hephaistos (Excellent Quality Damascene Steel [+3 attack & damage], Edge of the Razor [+2 Damage], Sun Duration, 3 uses/day)

The final...final version of Stephanos has been added in a new thread. I've modified him a bit since I'm bringing him in having not met Vulcanus yet, and so I got rid of the Venditor virtue. I figure I'll pick it up later when Vulcanus "hires" him.