Yes, you can always paint in smaller strokes, but demand is not as strong for say a city in the Rhine compared to the Novgorod tribunal...
One final piece I'd like to throw into the ring here...
AFAIK nobody has a subscription model that includes the local game store. If it could, I'd be more loyal to it. I know there's probably a whole other level of logistics with anything of the kind. But with a bit of tech, it seems like it should be possible.
I simply want my local game store to have more of an incentive for me to have a subscription.
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@rustleinthewoods: That's an interesting thought. Atlas already does a lot of direct fulfillment for retailers, so there might be some way to run subscriptions through your FLGS that could be good for everybody.
(Tangentially: If your FLGS is saying that they're having difficulty getting ArM products through their distributors, let them know that Atlas can probably supply them directly. And let us know, too, because we'd love to address any and all shortcomings in our distribution!)
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We actually did this (more or less) some years ago - and it worked very well indeed.
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It seems that I am a bit late to this thread. I have been quite unfocused this last year. IMHO:
- Set a plan of publications.
- Make it public.
- Set a minimum number of subscribers/patrons.
- Open subscriptions: if you get enough subscribers, go on with the plan. If not, wait for it. A lot of people come by this forum even if it is not every day. It can eventually reach critical mass.
I see nothing to lose.
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In a tangential question, what kind of market does anyone expect there would be for an alternate history supplement?
My concept is this: Ars Magica has two conceits in conflict (for the purpose of this supplement) 1) that the order's existence, and magic in general did nothing (substantial at least) to change history and 2) that Bonisagus was in correspondence with Charlemagne.
However historically Charlemagne enslaved all (proclaimed) wizards to the throne, except those who were diabolists or sacrificed to pagan gods, whom he executed.
So what if Bonisagus' letters to Charlemagne changed that history, and thereby changed the history of what would, in the prime timeline become the Holy Roman Empire?
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From which historical sources do you get your all-powerful Charlemagne?
EDIT: ArM5 is far more clever about the contacts between Charlemagne and the early Order of Hermes than you recall.
Richard Kieckhefer: Magic in the Middle Ages - Cambridge University Press 1990 refers in cp.8 to a capitulary of Charlemagne for the just subdued Saxons. It orders, that all those convicted of sorcery and divination shall become slaves of the church, and those making sacrifices to the devil (i. e. the Saxon gods) shall be executed.
The capitulary referred to by Kieckhefer, the Capitulatio de partibus Saxoniae from 782, precisely states:
Divinos et sortilegos ecelesiis et sacerdotibus dare constituimus.
In GotF p.140 we find:
789 The Founder Jerbiton meets with Charlemagne, after having adopted a
number of apprentices of the emperor’s mage-smith, Carolinus. Charlemagne issues a decree outlawing sorcery and paganism, but permits “benevolent magic” such as that practiced by Jerbiton
And lo, in Charlemagne's Admonitio Generalis of 789 we mainly find the canon laws as gathered and redacted by Adrian I, allowing for the ambivalence of the Western Church versus magic.
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- I neve claimed an all powerful Charlemagne, that is simply a strawman trying to backdoor an ad hominem
- that still leaves a gap of 7 years when any member of the order would be subject to arrest
- Why would Jerbiton need a special meeting from Charlemagne if Bonisagus had already been corresponding with him and finally
- the question was what interest there would be in an alternate history supplement, not whether you could go out of your way to be an asshole about shooting holes in the premise. Certainly there are existing products with much bigger holes.
I would love a book with alternate history elements. Things like a more public Order where its people may serve as court wizards. Or maybe one where history doesn't exactly fall like it does in canon and what sort of ramifications that might have down the line. Basically a book of past what if's would be very useful.
Maybe even what if there was Houses could be a part of that.
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Well, you did. See:
Of course, he was not that powerful at all.
The years in between 782 and 789 in Mythic Europe were filled with making the Capitulatio de partibus Saxoniae known, execute what was possible of it in Saxony, and then some time to have it become known in the Order as well.
I have no idea where you take the correspondence of Bonisagus and Charlemagne from in ArM5. Anyway, Jerbiton (see HoH:S p.40, TSE p.20f) was exactly the founder to subtly confront Charlemagne, leveraging his control over the apprentices and his knowledge of practices of the Emperor's mage-smith. Well, he succeeded.
To create interest, you introduced your idea in a pretty flawed way, namely:
Of the ArM5 founding magi, Jerbiton did something subtle and consequential about Charlemagne's politics, as we have seen. No need for Bonisagus to have a correspondence with the Emperor.
So, what remains of your idea? Have an alternate history, where Bonisagus resolved something by unlikely moral suasion and openly changing the world, which in Mythic Europe Jerbiton simply resolved by subtle politics, without the need to recreate over four centuries of history?
The law stated that all wizards were treated as stated above. Obviously not everybody could be caught. This is simply you being an ass. The point of saying all is not to indicate he was omnipotent, but rather that there were no exceptions historically.
As to the source of Bonisagus corresponding with Charlemange, I cannot locate the reference right now- it was essentially a throwaway line somewhere. If you want you can simply consider it a new aspect of the new history.
And no, it was not "by unlikely moral suasuion" it was in fact by revealing a real world act of intrigue regarding Charlemagnes brother, the pope at the time, and the Lombards, in which, from a certain perspective, Charlemagne was manipulated to turning on the Lombards who were his allies (he had at one point married the daughter) to defend the church from invasion while the pope in question was also plotting with Charlemagne's brother who sought to overthrow him politically. A little information at the right tie could have a very dynamic shifting of allegiances and profound effects on the outcome of the empire, especially in that it could effect Charlemagne's future marriage after he set his bride aside.
Additionally the Lombards taking over the Catholic Church by military force would have a bit of an impact on the future as well.
Actually, the Capitulatio de partibus Saxoniae from 782 is special law during a critical phase of subduing Saxony. Drafting "ecelesii" and "sacerdotes" to take care of magic practitioners uses them as part of the Frankish invasion force, and would not be generally practical in the Frankish domain. Also for Saxony, that capitulary was already replaced in 797 by the more moderate Capitulare Saxonicum.
Still, a capitulary of Charlemagne does not come with its purpose spelled out in the header. It makes sense, that the budding Order of Hermes felt concerned by it: so their expert for monarchs, Jerbiton, reacted decisively and in due time.
The editor and authors of ArM5 put a lot of effort into research, organisation and wording. When peddling a subscription for the game, it helps to do at least the basic research and care for wording, if one does not wish to appear a boor and a fool.
As for your
: couldn't that be from another version of the game?
No, because I came across it in the last month, and I haven't played earlier versions in years.
I'd still be happier if you could provide a reference please?
Because I don't recall having seen it, in this edition or any other.
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I conducted a search through almost all books for the word Charlemagne and could not find a single reference of Bonisagus writing to him. I did find references to Jerbiton, such as those:
From the base book 10: House Jerbiton extended the reach of the Order into the higher culture of the mundane world, even making overtures to Charlemagne himself.
From GotF 140:
789 The Founder Jerbiton meets with Charlemagne, after having adopted a number of apprentices of the emperor’s mage-smith, Carolinus. Charlemagne issues a decree outlawing sorcery and paganism, but permits “benevolent magic” such as that practiced by Jerbiton. (repeated in Normandy)
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As I said, if I am mistaken it could easily be a part of the alternate history in question. Because all of this has absolutely zero relation to the question I actually asked, which is what kind of interest there would be in an alternate history supplement of this type. As such minutiae about what did happen further "downstream" in the original timeline that is being changed and finding a reference for whom Bonisagus corresponded with in the texts has at best minimal relevance- even if both of these points are in error the misreading still served as inspiration for an alternate timeline project that I am proposing.
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I have interest in further development of the ars magicka line, including one featuring alternative history scenarios.
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I kind of recall there being mention of Charlemagne regarding the founding of Uranius, but I cannot locate it. And it's gotta be either 2nd or 4th edition anyway.
There was a covenant named Urania in the now ancient supplement The Sorcerer's Slave. Is that the one you were thinking of? I didn't find a reference there to Charlemagne, though.
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And you didn't put one into Blood&Sand either, where Urania can still be found. 