Greetings! I was reading about the rules for learning supernatural abilities for Gifted and True Faith characters. I understand how it works for learning them after character creation. And I am aware that Gifted characters gain a free supernatural ability - which, for magi, are the Hermetic Arts - which they can level up during character creation.
However, could a True Faith (non-magus) character pick up divine supernatural abilities during character creation without the corresponding virtues? For example, let's say I'm creating a 25 year old True Faith character, and have them join a Tradition at 20 years of age, then could they level up the favored abilities during character creation? Of course, that would be limited to the 5 years worth of xp from ages 20 - 25.
Also, would it be unreasonable to allow a Gifted (non-magus) character to pick up a second supernatural ability during creation without the corresponding virtue - that is assuming they have had access to a sufficiently skilled mentor? (This mentor character could be represented by a virtue or story flaw, for example).
The game discriminates against the non-magic traditions.
They need the corresponding virtues to get any supernatural abilities at character creation, even if they fulfill the requirements to learn those abilities during the game.
Gifted characters who have had their Gift opened to a tradition starts with all the Favoured Arts/Abilities of that tradition. Gifted characters who have not had their Gift opened get one free Supernatural ability at character creation.
Non-Gifted characters get nothing.
It would be unreasonable to give characters an extra free supernatural ability at character creation. They would need the corresponding virtue to represent learning it.
As a fairly new player I find this ruling quite strange, since, at least to me, the character creation rules appear to somewhat mirror the character advancement ones. As such, it seems strange that most abilities can be learned both through character creation and advancement, but some can be learned through advancement but not creation.
That is, it is possible to create a younger True Faith character with a specific set of virtues - unrelated to supernatural abilities - and advance them to get the supernatural abilities, but it is impossible to create an older True Faith character with that same set of virtues and supernatural abilities from the start. (Perhaps such edgecases are what the "very detailed character creation" is for?)
Maybe there is a lore or mechanical reason behind it, and I do not realize that due to my inexperience with the setting/system.
It is not impossible to gain virtues during play, by mystery initiation, pikgrimage, or gifts from powerful faeries or demons. It is supposed to be hard. Isn't also gaining a new supernatural ability harder than just getting the xp?
I don't know, honestly. For an average person in Mythic Europe, I would say yes. But characters with True Faith/The Gift function differently, so I don't know exactly how hard it is supposed to be, all I know is that it is harder for every supernatural ability they already know, and it is nigh-impossible with the Hermetic Arts open.
If you look at the mechanics - and correct me if I'm mistaken - a Gifted character with say, Dowsing 1 that didn't have his Arts opened doesn't need a high Source Quality to learn another ability. But does that mean it isn't hard? The question would be if they can actually find a willing teacher. And how rare are those? Maybe the person who taught them Dowsing also knows another supernatural ability and can teach them (that is, I'm assuming they would have to have been taught Dowsing to begin with).
But again, new player here, I don't know anything about this game, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, I'm just trying to learn.
This is generally true, but some kinds of character advancement are possible by having a story as a kind of payment, which can't be done during character creation. (Loke's examples of initiation, pilgrimage etc are good, but should all involve a story.)
OK. Then I should not say anything before I stress that Ars Magica is ambiguous, constantly open to interpretation, and I consider this a feature, not a bug. The complexity of the game world means that any attempt to write down complete and unambiguous rules would break down into inconsistencies, so you just need to make your own sense of the world, and sufficient rules to support the story you are going.
In my mind, teaching is a rare approach to learning supernatural abilities. I think most characters with, say, dowsing has an innate ability, which they may have practiced further. Anyway, finding a teacher is as hard or as easy as you want it in your saga. How common is the skill? Do the practications have decent teaching skills? Is there a culture for teaching such abilities? If you have the Gift, the teacher won't trust you, making it harder. If you find one, what do they charge. Probably a favour rather than silver, which turns it into a story.
Learning supernatural abilities was not as hard as I remembered, though. Dowsing 1 is not the typical examples. Most will start with a higher score, but you are right that even a min/max-ed companion with one supernatural ability can learn another in game from a teacher with Com 0 and teaching 1.
The main point, however, is that Ars Magica is not really designed to play a plethora of Gifted characters. It is a game about Hermetic magi who have the Gift. They form communities with grogs and companion with marginal supernatural powers or none at all. Over the years and editions, different rulesets have been added, but they are not necessarily well balanced, and if you play them as a seasoned power-player from a different game, you will end up confused and disappointed.
I would definitely recommend that new players stick to the basics, avoiding edge cases like Gifted non-magi and true faith.
Hey, sorry for the extremely late reply. I was on a family trip and forgot about this thread. At this point, maybe it would be wiser to say nothing, but I can't let it go without thanking you for sharing your wisdom with me. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer me.
This, specifically, I love the way you put it. Thanks, again.