SUPPLE IRON AND RIGID ROPE
MuTe 10 R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind
Makes a flexible object stiff or a stiff object flexible. Casting requisites of Forms appropriate to the materials affected are required. (Base 3: Change dirt to stone, or vice versa, +1 Touch, +2 Sun)
As I understand this effect, it is actually a Base 1: Change one property of dirt +2 to affect metals
Still, it does two things so it is missing a +1 mag to account for the extra flexibility to make things stiff or flexible.
Also, say this is cast on the clothes of a peasant (pants & shirt) & made to be stiff (Solid). Would that provide a -3 to all physical abilities? Running, brawling, etc. Seems the uses are much wider and effective than the name of it suggests. Might be one of the best non-lethal effects except when encountering naked folks. If time allows for the DE, maybe an errata would be deserved to address, if confirmed the missing mag and improve the description of the effect?
No, it does one thing. It "inverts" the flexibility of the target.
Note that this is different from an effect such as Preternatural Growth and Shrinking, where the caster has the choice between two different ways a property (size) of any target can be changed.
It would depend on the abilities, and on the clothes.
Running is impossible with rigid hoses. It is exceedingly hard with rigid breeches (think: knee length, loose pants) ... I'd say enough to give -12 and 6 extra botch dice to any Athletics roll to move around faster than a very slow walk. It is still hardish with a rigid, loose short vest (-3 to -6, 3 extra botch dice). Brawling in very close quarters might be easier. So I think this has to be played by the ear, there are too many cases to include in the spell's description.
It works very well on naked folks too, if you hit them with an entangling weapon such as a net or whip.
I'd note that exactly how stiff and how supple would depend on the material. And "stiff" doesn't mean "unbendable". In the same way, "supple" doesn't mean "limp".
So stiff clothes don't make one unable to move. I'd be less severe on the penalty imposed by wearing stiff clothes, perhaps only -1 penalty after the first round.
And a supple sword can still be sharp and heavy enough to fight with. So perhaps -1 to both Atk and Dam.
Remember that this is supposed to be an utility spell, not a combat one.
I wouldn't give a penalty to damage, just attack. The real trick is for a soldier suddenly confronted with a supple sword to realize they can still fight with it. If they believe it is worthless it is.
While stiff does not mean unbendable the word "rigid" is also involved here, so it certainly shouldn't be just a little stiff- if a rope can support a man's weight like a bar of iron then clothing isn't just going to just be as if it had a bit too much starch in the wash.
Hmm. This is actually a fantastic spell for a caster with Flexible Formulaic Magic: increasing Range to Voice, increasing Duration to Moon (or decreasing it to Concentration), increasing Target to Part... opens many possibilities. Though a Level 20 version designed with R:Voice and T:Part would be even better, offering access to T:Group and R:Sight.
One question about this effect is: when the magic making a stiff object flexible expires, if such an object has been bent into a different shape, does it retain its new shape or does it spring back to its original shape?
I think the shape is not part of the Essential Nature, so no.
Rock to Viscid Clay does the same with a rock: after you formed that rock w/ your bare hands, the rock stays that shape.
Right, the Essential Nature of stone is 'hard and unyielding'. Not 'square'. So RoVC on a cubic stone you can shape it into a squiggly bit, and it'll be a hard and unyielding squiggle.
Same with clothing and fabric. This chat did make me want to continue another Tribunal advancement of Josephine tho.. Hmm..
Don't think essential nature talks are needed here.
4 ways of thinking often battle about this:
1- Caster decides at time of casting
2- Magi Decides at time of creation of effect (spell design in cases for Formulaic/Ritual/Object or same as option 1 for spont effects
3- Always has to return to original state but not original form (i.e metal needs to remain as metal but not strait metal if was strait originally or as metal grains on the floor even if was armor at beginning
4- Always has to return to original form/state
I'm of the school of thinking that aligns with #2 but you still have to honour essential nature where metal needs to remain metal and such. Option 1 can also happen but you'd need to include at lease a +1 flexibility
My point/worry exactly. That spell does only one thing. It transforms a rope into a resistant, not even unbreakable, rope! And it is 5 levels higher.
So what is it? Is Terram that much superior? Is the original magi just a really bad one but with awesome PR team so that the effect made it to the Best known spells of the Order (Corebook)?
First of all, it's not just "a resistant, not even unbreakable, rope". It's "refined superior bronze", which has a whole lot properties that a rope (even a rigid rope) does not have. And an Individual of Herbam turned into bronze is larger than an Individual of Terram made of bronze.
Second, I think it's ok for different Forms to have different strengths (and weaknesses)! Though admittedly, Terram is one of the "strong" Forms.
On the Terram side, we have a Base 3 effect with optional casting requisites that enable to target any object and make it softer or harder as one needs. Only limit is size of said object which the Herbam effect also has but both can be offset by using the "Part" extra magnitude.
On the Herbam side we have we have a Base 4 effect with a mandatory free requisite of Terram that is a one poney trick which is to turn a normal rope into a refined superior bronze rope. I guess it might please some fairies or impress a merchant or even a Lady.
We agree. From everybody's comments, I seem, again, to be in the far minority that sees a problem with Supple Iron and Rigid Rope. Then again, no one seems to agree on what it does exactly & not sure if folks agree an errata is needed to fix the Base down to Base 1 +2 to affect Metal. Isn't there somewhere a thing that says you need to design into the spell what it affects? i.e Metal & not rock unless you add some magnitudes for flexibility?
