I invented that saying.
Well, this isn't really the way I had hoped my first post to the Forums in nearly two years would go down, but so be it. I can't escape who I am or the controversy I incur by simply existing (hence the quote from Eazy-E in my signature tag).
I fear we may not come to a consensus, but I feel I need to clear up some misconceptions, and indeed I do believe discussing things with the group as a whole may hopefully present some new ideas. (edit a day after I wrote this, I thought of a new idea that could work out, but I will insert it at the end because I took the time to write this whole stupid thing).
First of, Jonathan Link my good sir, many thanks for your kind consideration and my apologies for any inconvenience. I also hate prolonged PM gaming. Back when crap fell apart on me, I toyed with the idea of simply chucking Andorra and just playing Novus Mane. But it had gotten to the point where I couldn't even log on without a dozen PM's per day containing various pleas, complaints, and ultimatums.
And here I would take a moment to issue a heartfelt apology to my fellow NM players who may be reading (Max, Andrew, Jebric, and Fixer), Guys, I am Sorry. I am really genuinely remorseful for ditching out like that. I just couldn't take it any more. My saga (which was pretty cool sometimes) had utterly collapsed and it broke my heart. A book I was working on for Atlas ran into several conflicts as well, and I was getting both frustrated and fatigued from the constant endless revision work (advice to prospective authors, don't take on two books back to back, take a year off between). I was dealing with a bunch of personal BS as well, and all in all it totaled up to me having to just walk away. Seriously, I haven't cracked open an Ars Magica book or done any gaming of any sort for almost two years. I'm really sorry and regret just leaving without word. I hope that you guys can not only forgive me, but perhaps have some sympathy.
Back to Mr. Link, I again apologize that my personal issues have spilled into your game. I was not making an attempt to join your game, and really, that still isn't my real goal. I am timid about returning to gaming actually. My honest and only goal was to reconnect with some old friends and try and revive an old Saga I greatly enjoyed. Max said it sounds fun but he has no time. Fixer mentioned he liked the idea but he has little time and is sunk deep in you game. Jebric flatly said no, bring Roberto to your game. So I'm like "Oh? That sounds intriguing.". So I checked it out and wrote you, which started the whole PM thread, and I apologize for that.
Andrew, I have not heard from yet.
You made mention in this or some other thread about other players in NM and their input. They were all bit players, and though some were fun (and others not so much), theirs were side characters that usually lasted no more than a single story arc (if that long). I hate to sound callous but they are unimportant to me in this regard. There were only five primary players in NM, whom I have name above, and it their opinions and sentiments that are important to me at this point for consideration of this matter (which is, as I stated, trying to revive NM somehow in someway).
Which brings me back to Mons Electi. It is shear Ely by pure coincidence that you guys were discussing incorporating NM or something similar into a story arc. Or perhaps it is divine providence. But I honestly knew nothing of it when I wrote my initial PM to the NM players. Continuing my story, Jebric invited me to bring Roberto to Mon Electi. After initial conversation, I figured that perhaps this might not be a good fit for me. But then Fixer urged me to check out this particular thread where these ideas were being discussed, and I started to think we can make it work after all.
Note the phrasing, I am not looking to fit into a saga, I am looking for something that fits me (such as reviving NM intact, or at the very least playing Roberto Rodriguez of Flambeau as intact as tolerably possible). I know that sounds selfish, and again I apologize. I have a sack full of sorry on my back. Perhaps it would be more apt to say I am willing and eager to provide myself as a value and asset, but I do not desire to be a liability and I am willing to simply walk away and continue my quest elsewhere. I don't want to be a nuisance to anyone. In such a case, you do have my blessing to use Roberto and Novus Mane as NPC's as needed. Many others have. I have in the past been contacted by players who have utilized Roberto for their table games and told tales of his exploits and adventures in the imaginations of others. Ars gamers mine the forums for ready-made npc and covenant stats all the time. Ars Magica can be a complicated game, these are useful resources (though I must say, I think that it would be kinda mean to let someone else play Roberto when you know how bad I wanna do it).
Having boldly placed my chips on the table, I would put forth the proposition that I can and will be a valued asset to you game. As I just said, my nuts are under the hammer here. If I do join this game, making a comeback to gaming, and Ars Magica, I will feel the heavy weight of responsibility to bring vitality and enjoyment to our shared experience. I also have a reputation to consider. I was known as an active and insightful player and participant on the forums. Opinionated? Perhaps to an extent, but I would like to think I was thought provoking and constructively positive at times.
Now to apply these traits to the hand we have been dealt. One idea proposed was for Roberto to simply make a guest appearance and keep his age as-is. I like this idea, the story will only last a month or six (they do that sometimes), but afterwards there is really no need to keep track of NM or dig into its history. It's like comic books or a TV show. Wolverine is drinking at a bar where Ben Grimm (aka The Thing) hangs out, Wolvie hangs out with the Fantastic Four for an issue or two, and he goes on his way. He may make one off comments about the X-Men that really has no bearing or relevance to the story at hand, it is just for flavor.
As for why he would be the one chosen for a diplomatic mission, well, he really is the best choice. Trust me. I know those magi 
Ideas have also been proposed concerning reimagining or retconning Roberto. Honestly, I am not so keen on that, but I am not inflexible. I have tried playing Roberto clones before, it just isn't the same. He is who he is. He cannot be denied. He is a complete package, his Virtues & Flaws and core design are indeed rooted in his cultural and historic background. I would compare creating Roberto to how Robert Howard described creating Conan, the character having stepped fully forward into his mind, seeming as if Conan were relating the stories of his life as opposed to Howard fabricating them as he wrote. I say this in a poetic sense. I don't believe that I am remembering a past life or possessed by some ghost. It is just that, well, he is who he is. The man cannot be denied. I have even used Roberto as a character in bed time stories and didactic tales I have told my son. I tell them with such vibrancy that the kid eats them up and asks for more (my little girl not so much, she invented her own sorceress that she wants me to make up stories about).
What really pins him down is his personal history. This is detailed in his character sheet online, so I need not go over it here unless requested to write a short summary. Another SG doesn't really need to study his history or that of NM. Over half of those players are here and can provide relevant details as needed. But mainly it will serve as fodder or idle chatter and anecdotes that may or may not be partially truthful.
To retro-age Roberto, I can stretch it maybe six years and keep his background intact. Ties to mundane history. He fought at Las Navas as an apprentice, his parens being slain there and Roberto earning his battlefield gauntlet by avenging him. Afterwards he follows his mentor Santiago and participates in the Shadow Wars (completing his training, so he enters game in 1220 as a normal freshly gauntleted magus). It is this six year gap I can play with, making his training pretty much complete by 1214.
Now to advance &/or improve Roberto to make him comparable in power to other characters, there are other ways to do that besides back-aging him. A Magic Realm adventure or some such can provide an excuse for some sort of time-skip. I need not open the vis-xp can of worms here. Though I wouldn't mind a new Minor Virtue or two, I am more than willing to forgo this and just take straight xp and maybe a few pawns of vis for lab use.
Or whatever. I am not concerned with power parity, and in truth I do not understand the issue at hand. I am sure you must have some reason for keeping everyone at the exact same level, information that has yet to be revealed to me. Though I think said situation lacks a certain verisimilitude, I do understand having to offer players the opportunity to be balanced with each other so that they feel that they are a little better than equal to the rest. I understand it as an offer, but I do not understand it as a mandate. You have a unique situation here, a player who is willing to play a younger less-experienced magus. As a SG, I would jump at the opportunity to mix up levels/ages.
Note that I said "less-experienced", not "less-powerful". I don't mid that either (I love playing/creating companion & grog characters). But a magus twenty-five years older might be nearly equal to Roberto. He is that self confident (and overconfident). His Coolness score is +5, and he wears a +2 Awesome t-shirt 
.
In reference to Roberto being modeled on an earlier edition of Ars Magica and House Flambeau, this is untrue. Roberto is an ArM5 character, stamped and sealed. The only rulebooks in reference to his creation are ArM5 and Societates. Anything of his own invention was designed and crafted under the supervision of a discerning troupe and subject to their discretion and modification. Other than myself, half of those players are present here. And the two that are not present were far stricter (Andrew knew the rules better than I did, and Max wielded a Big Red Hammer (tm) on anything he disapproved of).
As far has is personal beliefs of the history of Flambeau, that's just a regional quirk. He belongs to a Societas Flambonis called "The Knights of Seneca", who simply hold a different opinion on how shit really went down. The Knights and the lineage of Delendos are detailed for ArM5 in issue #2 of Sub Rosa, but I actually created Roberto before I wrote that. It is based on him, not the other way around. Though I will admit that it was right around when it came out that I introduced Roberto to the public and NM (having at that point garnered some modicum of public approval respect for my Flambeau ideas).
It is not that strange of a concept. As a societatas, I am sure there are many Flambeau who are not so concerned with the history of a True Lineage, and may have substituted their own legends. I can imagine the story would stretch more the further away you got from France. Perhaps a group in the Theban Tribunal believe was a Spartan, maybe in Ultima Thule some legend claims he was secretly the half mortal son of Loki (god of fire, enemy type figure or Odinists). For Spaniards, well, it's just an ethnic thing
I have gone over my goals as a player and a correspondent. But there was inquiry made as to what my goals with Roberto as a character may be, or rather, what Roberto's goals may be. He's a complicated man who yearns for a simpler life. Take a wife and sire a son. Challenging for a magus with the Gift, but it can be managed. Somehow. Magical goals? More spells. A diversity of utilities. Learn to fly. Enchant his father's sword as a talisman. No interest in mysteries or alternative magics. Political goals? None really. Not a fan of Garus, but I don't dislike him either. Kinda like me not being a fan of Justian Beaver. Wish him well, just don't wanna listen to it. If Roberto ever met the guy, he'd recognize his VIP status, but would still look him in the eye and judge him by the merits and detriments he may exhibit in the encounter. As for any of his fans whining about how they wanna impress him, he may bust their balls about their bromance fantasies. Any character conflicts would be handled in-character and may prove entertaining. Again, Roberto is not an aggressor, he is a defender. Situations can certainly be handled in an amicable fashion.
These are the cards in my hand. Now let us see what cards others have. I am hopeful that others will have suggestions just as good if not better. I would really like to do this, not only for myself, but for my old friends and for the new ones I hope to make. As I said, my intent is to bring vitality and enjoyment for the participants in this game. Roberto is the tool that I have that can accomplish this. I will admit that some may view this as a limitation and one of my personal Flaws, but I assure you that it is balanced by powerful Virtues.
*As I mentioned towards the beginning, I came up with a new idea after I wrote this. I could create and play Santiago, Roberto's mentor. In that way, I can receive some satisfaction in that I am developing the Roberto mythos, and I will be creating a character at the SG's desired power level. And maybe I can preserve the opportunity to one day play the real thing in a cameo. Santiago can be molded to fit your saga a little better. He has similar historic land markers (Las Navas, the Shadow Wars), but they are not as age binding. He is also unstatted, never generated as a full character, just some vague descriptions and few definitive markers. He looks like Danny Trejo. He fought in the Reconquista, but like Roberto, he has turned his back on war. Roberto's parens Joel Muniz was once Santiago's mentor. He took Roberto under his wing, but will probably never take an apprentice of his own. He is one of the Knights of Seneca and descends from the lineage of Delendos. After Las Navas, he crusaded against the Shadow Flambeau, and he killed Rassus at the end (or so he thinks). His gig is that he hunts infernal magi, specifically pledging to track down and execute any of the remaining Shadows that fled.
Why Santiago? Because it allows me to participate in this quasi Novus Mane idea and play a Roberto-esque character, while at the same time leaving the actual Roberto untouched by revision (preserving the hope of reviving the actual Roberto some day). He may have moved into Novus Mane in the past year or so. Why did they let him? Because he brought something valuable they needed to the table, something they needed, something that allowed them to free themselves from former vassalage (which turns out to have been a mistake and now they seek to become a vassal again. Or something like that. But now they wanna get rid of Santiago, so they conspire to send him to Mons Electi in hopes that he will like it better over there and stop overshadowing them. Or something like that. Maybe he was just visiting there and is accompanying someonewhatwhoever. Santiago is more malleable.
We all seem to be agreed that this is going to be a cameo storyline, and that the character stats should be as written at Novus Mane start. JL, are you content with the permissions you've been given to continue using character names straight from NM? Or should we still rename everybody who isn't being played by their original player?
Probably no need for me to come along as the NM Verditus then. But you guys should keep the wagon. That's so very in keeping with the character.
PS to Marko - No idea what all that drama was about, and not interested in finding out. Welcome back, if only for a while.
Yeah, I knew I didn't have a complete story of what had gone on in PMs, which is why I wanted to bring it here. I knew as soon as I could see all the pieces, I'd get a clearer understanding.
Well, my style is I provide the overall Arc, and I provide individual stories, and pretty much everything else is up to the players, with some comments and input from me here and there. So, there isn't any inconvenience. I think we can make Roberto work here, if you really want to play him. If you want to play him as is, that's fine, too. We can timeshift Novus Mane back a bit, and you can enter the saga as he is in Novus Mane, advance him a few years, whatever you think makes the most sense for you and of course Roberto's personal story.
I'm going to let those who played with you opine on whether Roberto would be a good fit for you/Roberto. I am thinking yes, but others might have more solid comments to make.
Of course, and like I said, a lot of that is up to you, if you think you need to age him, we can. If you don't, you don't have to. I have a general desire to have everyone roughly comparable, whatever comparable means. There is only one firebrand of any sort, Marcus, and whoops, he just went missing lost in the Land of Giants for who knows how long. I made him when I initially toyed with the idea of handing some SG duties over to someone, and when I needed to create a character who could do well at the Normandy Dimicatio. But, I don't have a lot of love for the character, so if he's gone it won't hurt too much. 
And I've satisfied myself with other things and no longer have a desire to play him.
I err on the side of caution in PbP, OOC interactions. We don't have personal face-to-face relationships, so my desire for comparable characters/experience is born out of a desire not to be seen as playing favorites. If everyone is more or less equal, it solves a lot of problems for me. If you don't need that to feel like you have something to add to the saga, then I'm satisfied.
That helps a bit. Garus is dead, when Arya was here, she floated the idea that Ariel would become Prima of Flambeau, and I went with it, but she can be re-imagined as the Flambeau participants would like. The only part I want to reinforce is that she is insistent upon rebuilding Val Negra.
I'm interested in telling good stories. I have a frequent posting rate, as you might have noticed by the size of the forum, and also, I'm closing in on you in post count. In truth, I think you really found out I was closing in on your post count and came back to make sure it didn't happen. 
However you feel most comfortable stepping into the saga. I think both can make an interesting addition. As I said, if you want to play Roberto as he is or advanced a few years, that can certainly work, too.
I moved the posts out of the Vassal thread.
It's interesting in how amul and I perceived the differences of Marko's email. I think Roberto can be as Flambeau as he'd like to be. This would make three active Flambeau (4 when you include Jacques). And if all of them have a different idea of what it is to be Flambeau, I don't think that's a bad thing.
Yay!
Happy-happy-joy-joy-joy
I would take the unmodified as-he-is option. Here is the link to his character sheet where he last left off, submitted for the inspection of the troupe.
https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/character-sheets/2562/1
On the same page, along with various other Novus Mane magi, you will find Roberto's to grog sidekicks Carlos & Pedro, as well as his companion Marcello (Jebric's character). They are not essential and I am not trying to shoehorn them in. I am just now remembering I never figured out exactly what was up with Marcello and his delusional memory.
But as I said, that is a total tangent. I am more than happy with this. Ecstatic really
I mean this is f'n awesome!
Now I just need to figure out how to navigate your saga page. Very complicated with what appears to be multiple threads running concurrently. Where should I start in order to get a hand on it? Keep in mind, I don't need or even want all of the information. Just what would be realistically within Roberto's knowledge plus that which I as a player should be aware of.
And how do you wanna start the story arc up? I could write the classic "stranger rides into town" sorta intro. As for the McGuffin (Hitchcock term for "the plot motivator), the McGuffin idea I have is that NM somehow became independent from Florum somehow (not sure how, maybe they found a treasure and bought their freedom, mayby Florum is trading them off, or some such). But in any case, a year later we are struggling and really need a new liege covenant, which sounds like Mons Electi could be an apt choice.
Just an idea.
Sally killed off Garus or some such? Correction, I just scrolled down. She wanted her character as Prima? It sounds like a story about electing a new primus may be interesting here. Roberto would vote for Santiago , but that guy would probably turn it down. Roberto himself is a bit to young, and even if he wasn't it still would not be his goal. Not politically ambitious. Instead, Roberto manufactures a bunch of campaign buttons that say "Wirth for Primus"
(Can you guys tell I am at the library with my laptop? Detailed messages are a pain in the ass using my phone).
And you are telling me that after a two year absence I still have the highest post count on he Forums? Is that even sane? What was/still-is wrong with me? OMG.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, you're only like 400 ahead of JL. There for a while (like, the first part of the year, I think?) you had as much as #2 and #3 put together. (I don't wanna think about how far ahead of me you are. Makes me feel like a slacker )
i was putting together a post for Marko to consider for Roberto but I was preempted by that short story that was posted
On to some ideas
For everyone ( but The Fixer Novus Main was made as a place for Magi who were flawed in a way that they were not wanted at other Covenants. Roberto has an infamous Master so for many, he is not liked.
Background for Marko: Apollodorus, the founder of Mons Electi, had proof that the Duresca Scrolls were true and had proof so Guernicus what out to kill him. He let several other heads of house know about his research and had some allies, one of which was Garus. When the cow pat hit the fan, Garus was assassinated as Guernicus moves to weaken House Flambeau and put their own "puppet" in charge. Now many of the houses have the proof that Guernicus has been playing the order ( caused the Schism War, Weakened Tremere and Tytalus. basically, all of the big events in the Order). But everyone seems to be acting normal. All the Magi at Mons electi know about House Guernicus and are enemies of the high council. Valerian (Lion & lilly pg 137) is the one that killed Apollodorus and makes life generally tough for us.
Brain storming some ideas for Roberto:
- Santiago - As mentor to Roberto, he will have a lot of sway. He will have to choose sides in the conflict within House Flambeau. If he chooses to align with the new Primus, he could suggest Roberto join Mons Electi to help protect them. Or he could have chosen the other side and wants Roberto there as a spy or agent provocateur.
- Roberto could be approached by some individuals who will want him to participate at the Normandy Tribunal tournament. They may even help him out a bit. They are trying to set it up for Roberto to "accidentally" kill Alexei and thus deprive ME of a strong defender. It gets you involved with the Tournament and Roberto's honor would not let them take advantage of him to kill another ( and why would they want to do that?).
- Roberto could be sent by the Primus to help at ME.
- Roberto could be sent by Lucius ( read Guernicus puppet) to ME to spy for him against the traitors.
Okay, I'm going to be out of town and without internet access from Wed - Mon, so I guess we all have at least that long to figure out what everyone else's consensus is.
For my own part, I was looking for a story wherein our characters and covenant interacted with magi who were younger/less powerful than us.
Given my need to prepare for upcoming travel plans, I will leave my interjections into this thread with that comment for now.
I like the option where Alexei doesn't get killed...accidentally or not.
I like this idea. That mentor flaw of mine comes in very useful for generating story hooks. Indeed, stumbling onto these hooks you guys have in play, that seems like a very logical approach with some savory potential.
They will wind up making me angry, and they won't like that very much
That may depend on who the new Primus is and how much respect Roberto has for him 
More great story potential
Just read Roberto, very cool character and great history. He and Alexei would get along famously...or hate each other. The similarities in outlook they have lead to those two outcomes IMO.
Having said that, Alexei is the champion from the last Tribunal joust, it certainly could be feasible they'd meet on the field and possibly have outsiders try to manipulate the results.
As it is, I'd love to see the two have some sparring sessions.
It's pretty simple in design, complex in execution. I read through several sagas and noticed the glacial pace at which stories movie, and typically it was the result of a player being out of action for a period of time. So the way I mitigate that is give every magus a starring role in their own stories. Other magi can come into a story, but if they don't participate, I don't have to feel guilty about moving action along while waiting for their input. The star of the story moves it along. So, I have several stories going on concurrently and then also a thread for interaction between the players which can happen at any time the players choose for it to happen. I have a lot going on to juggle, but that's my burden and it isn't necessary for any of the players to be involved in more stories than they think they can handle.
I'd like to detach him from Novus Mane more completely...maybe he's tired of being under orders? And after Marcus disappears from Mons Electi, they are in some need of an ignem specialist, or at least someone who can toss ignem well, if they go up against the Jotun.
No, I killed him off. Guernicus hit squad. On that night, Apollodorus was murdered, Garus was murdered, and Harco attacked with Prima Insatella almost murdered. As a result of killing him off, I had intended to do a whole big affair (it's past) electing the new Prima, Ariel. However elements of that story didn't work out very well, and it was shortened for a number of reasons. I did install Ariel as Prima, but she can be reimagined as necessary fitting the needs of the troupe.
Ars is a good drug?
Oh, and right now, I'm stretching out the time of the stories for the players from 1227.3 to 1227.4. This period is to prepare for the Tribunal (which actually happens in 1227.2, but the 1227.4 story doesn't depend on events of the Tribunal). Mons Electi is hosting the Tribunal. I want to kick off the Tribunal soonish. Roberto could either enter at the Tribunal, or enter before the Tribunal, attempting to join Mons Electi (he would have a recommendation from Ariel vouching for him). I'm going to ruminate how/when to enter Roberto into the saga.
Tangent:
When/where is the Grand Tribunal?
Are we going?
Grand Tribunal is always at Durenmar, by tradition. And it happens in the summer of 1228.
And the second question is a function of the Normandy Tribunal of 1227... I'm not going to say much more than that, right now.
I like Jebric's idea of using Santiago as the hook, he sends me here for whatever reason, and let things play forward from there. We can easily detach Roberto from NM that way. His mentor is one of the few people he would follow orders from. Indeed, his mentor has more sway over him than the Primus, Praeco, or an Archmagus! He is the one that sent me to Novus Mane to begin with, and if he says "I need you to go here and do this", Roberto would likely comply. Not out of subservience, but because he trusts the man's wisdom and figures whatever he is up to is probably something very important.
I am leaving the library now but I can follow along on my phone. I can truck the laptop back up to the library later this week and post Roberto after others have weighed in. Should I start a new thread for him?
Also, I notice that you guys are in 1227? That puts me almost a year behind as I left off in the middle of 1226. Should we just let it slide, add some xp, or hit the lab for a few seasons? You guys decide. I am a gamer, so my instinct is to glom all I can, but it is a small drop in the bucket and I don't mind forgoing it.
Actually, I'm running stories from 1223 through 1227. I had characters advance to 1227 so that they could do adequate planning for the Tribunal and get their pieces in position, as it were. The stories in play now all involve the story flaws of the respective characters.
We can bring Roberto at any time, 1223 or 1227.2 (Tribunal). I'm thinking it's better to enter before the Tribunal...
I would strongly suggest that Roberto gets up to 30 years post gauntlet when he enters the story. I think most of us are about 37 years post gauntlet at the time of the tribunal.
I left off with
, which by my count is 1226.3 (I always start years in Winter with the solstice). So perhaps we can bring him in for Autumn 1226?