Table talk (Bibracte)

He can cast it through the talisman. If the spearhead is not part and parcel of the talisman, then no, he cannot cast a spell through it. Also, if the spear is enchanted in such a way that it can be resisted, and has no penetration, then it can never touch someone with MR (unless they allow it). In said case, then no, the touch range spell cast through it would have no effect.
But for Dimicatio, none of this matters. spell was cast and would have otherwise been successfully delivered to the target save for MR. That is the point of the contest, who is quicker at casting/countering, which is what really matters in "real life" magical combat.

Looks good to me.

Just read up on Dimicatio and Wizard's Melee. WM isn't so bad. Thought it was something different.
Dimicatio rules permit any spell that directly targets the opponent. The opponents try to block each other using a fast-cast defense, and the winner is the first magus whose spell reaches his opponent's parma.
So, casting a spell on me through the talisman is fine. Any stupid spell. The spearhead cannot conduct a spell. As for casting a spell on the spearhead and touching me with it, I don't think that qualifies. Casting that same spell on my sword, though resisted by parma, would qualify as a win unless i can counter or block the spell somehow. Wizard Leap is a good fast cast defense if used right. You would still remain within the range of my voice, and if your start and end leap points are both in my field of vision, you are still a legit target and spell isn't countered. However, if you leap outside me field of vision, such as behind or above me, the spell is countered because I cannot target what I cannot see.
But still, it all comes down to fast casting. The best way to overcome a fast cast defense is to fast cast the offense faster than defense can react. Also, the higher level the spell, the harder it is to counter. That's why my PeVi15 Thwarting the Thaumaturgical Threat fails. It is excellent versus low level spells. But versus high level Dimicatio favorites, it is useless. I'd have to add 10 levels for every 5 levels of defense. And it's twice as likely to botch compared to a spont. But it is all purpose, like a concentrated Winds of Mundane Silence.

So, I offer the following challenge. Let's set up a match. Either move along the "Road to" thread or do one of those sidereal deals.
"Tonight! Von-K the Imperitor versus Red Robert el Vengador! Dimicatio!"
We will need a referee, both in character and to adjudicate rules. In game, we need someone to InVi detect when parma has been touched. Ajudicating, we need a third player to judge the event, and I propose that all die rolls be made by this third party.

I also propose we place a stake on the contest. If I win, full membership. None of this probationary bs. If you win, you get the next three seasons of my time (help in lab, teach you my spells, send me on errands, etc).

Eh?

Field of Vision applies to R:Sight spells. Keep in mind if it's a R:Voice you may still be within the field of vision. Also, it's not formally defined, but I imagine that there is some sort of boundary line which may not be crossed. I plan to formalize that. Normandy Tribunal is about a year after Roberto arrives at Mons Electi. I ran all the events (except the Melee which is grog competition) last time. I can run a Melee this time, too, since it appears we might have someone who wants to run the squad. :smiley:

You miss my point. One of the lesser laws of magic is that you cannot target what you cannot percieve. I need to see the target, touch them, smell them, have an AC, or whatnot.
It's like this. Even with a voice ranged spell, I have to identify the target (my opponent). So I go to cast my spell, but he disappears. I don't know where he is at' so I miss the opportunity to cast at him. But if I had an AC, then the PoF would curve over my shoulder behind my back to blast him.
And yes, now that I understand Wizard's Melee, Roberto would be willing to captain a squad.

Perception is more than sight, though. If I can hear you behind me, I can cast a spell at you. Deductive reasoning isn't perception, though, if you can't be heard or otherwise noticed, and you are behind a magus attempting to target you, you haven't been perceived. Make sense?

If the Dimicatio field is bounded (and I've always thought it was), and you're at the edge, he can't go behind you without going out of bounds, which probably results in a DQ. If you're not far from the edge he may be close enough to still perceive, by other means, feeling the air swirling behind you, hearing his huffing breath from having quickly cast a spell. A spell like PoF and BoAF where the effect of traveling to the target is technically cosmetic may still target the person as long as they are sensed. Does Wizard's Leap have a popping sound associated with it? Probably. Does it require some sort of awareness check to have the PoF or BoAF reacquire the target, probably? I'm thinking Wizard's Leap may not be an effective defense in Dimicatio, unless it's on Rego spells not after the fashion of Vilano. I don't think Vilano spells are legal in the Dimicatio, because they inflict damage and the spell effect ends before the stone ever gets to the target. And finally, IMO, Dimicatio is about going first. If you can't go first, you're probably toast. Rarely do they volley back and forth. You don't want it to, as it means others are going to figure out what your tactics are further on down the line.

The Melee in Normandy Tribunal is not the same as Wizard's Melee in Houses of Hermes. The Melee is a mundane event similar to capture the flag. CrIm castles are created with Ring duration at opposing ends of the field the goal is for the grogs to disrupt their opponent's castle first. It is non magical, except for the castles created.

Yes, this is correct. If I can still hear or even smell the target, then voice range still works. I do not think there is a popping sound or bamf. Little too X-Men. But I suppose it depends on the caster's sigil. If odd noises are their sigil, yeah. Or maybe the scent of lilacs or a cnange in temperature that I can detect.
But this may be difficult with a roaring crowd of stinky medevial folk.
Not sure about the arena, that may vary, but he could always pop in directly above me and float there with another spell.
But I'd still manage to win somehow. You are right to say that it is all about speed and initiative.
As for Melee, what you describe is what I was worried about. I will have to reread it, but it sounds like mundane foolishness rather than a magical contest of martial sikill.

In the melee, are they armed or just brawling? I have an expert brawler on hand :wink:
Are you allowed to ensorcel the grogs? Cast protective spells on them before the competition?

Considering Alexei,s Talisman, is it resistable because it is enchanted, or because it has a constant effect? I forget how that works. I am thinking about enchanting a sword, but doing it the hard way with effects that can be switched on and off.
What if I enchanted only part of it, such as a semi-precious stone set into the hilt? Like a topaz set in the eye of a lion that is part of the art of the hilt/crossguard.
See, I am also trying to think of ways I can open the thing for enchantment. My MT is 4, and I can always study more of course. And I will.
At a rate of 2 x MT vis in a season, I need a score of 8 for the whole sword (15 for base metal-medium size), but I only need 6 to open a a topaz set into the sword (semi precious gem-tiny size).
I can afford to go low, because I then plan to attune it as a Talisman, and then I can open it up to 21 or higher bit by bit.
I need to lay hands on some vim vis...
What are the ways to increase the amount of vis you can use in a season? Without dabbling in exotic magics.

It's resisted because it is magical/enchanted. To get around that he can affix spear tips of mundane construction.

I'm OK with that just opening a gem in the hilt. Any effects it casts on the sword would be resisted, but if there aren't any active effects on the sword, the sword's blade is mundane. Everyone else OK with something like that? Planning on making this the talisman? I have some difficulty with calling the entire blade unenchanted in that case....

The first effect I had in mind was setting it ablaze with a simple command word, unlimited auto concentration, no penetration. If I want penetration, I'll just cast the spell.
I have other tricks in mind, such as making it stronger & sharper, but was thinking to set them to also be switched on & off to get around MR (against dragons and ogres of course).
But if as a talisman, how would I figure the penetration if there are no active effects? Or should I just leave the effects constant and include penetration?
or...
Maybe the sword should not be my talisman. Enchant it all tricky, but make something else my talisman. My ring? A shield? Be deceptive...

Viscaria has Major Hermetic Alchemy, and is a Verditus. She can reduce the cost of opening by her Craft Score+Hubris (11), and then reduce further OR open wider with her Alchemy (an extra 7). So she could either open that sword for (effectively) free, or open it with 22 spaces for 4 vis.

I suppose she might be able to initiate someone in Alchemy. Though I don't know what we'd use for an initiation skill.

The problem with talisman weapons is that they need to penetrate, though if they are just instilled and otherwise they don't have a constant effect, perhaps not. But if you want to make sure your weapon doesn't break you'll likely have to give it a constant effect, like my staff, so now a whack from it is resisted. But then again, you're also likely to instill specific effects to make an attack with and add penetration for that effect, which is pretty cheap in all honesty.

Shields, rings, jewelry typically don't need to touch any but you, but don't extend your reach much either.

So, question for JL, spells cast through the Talisman that have a Touch range, are they resisted before the touch can land and prevent the spell from discharging?

i dunno if you can do that and still have it be my talisman. but if not my talisman, then I have more flexibity in options.
Roberto is uninterested in Mysteries.

A shield won't extend my touch, but it will extend my "prevent from being touched".
Follow my logic...
A talisman shield is an extension of my magic resistance. You pretty much can't touch me without getting past the shield, which shares my MR.
Also, if being enchanted &/or having active magic means the shield is resistable, then it has to penetrate your MR in order for you to be able to touch it.
And I can instill effects that affect me personally, making it imposible for you to touch me unless the effect penetrates your MR.

Yep. You were saying that it shouldn't be your talisman, in which case I think the best sort of enchantment to put on it is somebody else's. That way you can have attacks nobody is expecting from you.

Because, really, who expects to be turned into a pig when they land a blow on your shield.

Hmmm...Enhanced Curse of Circe is a Level 40 spell (really? I added 2 magnitudes for size? Why'd I do that?vrummage rummage rummage Ah...so it will affect fuglies up to Size +7. Makes sense.). Add, say. 24 uses a day (+5...and you don't plan on taking more than two dozen blows on your shield in a day, do you?), makes it a Level 45 Enchantment. Fiona's MuCo lab total for enchanting items, including Sheelagh and Paul, is 61, so she can enchant it in...three seasons. If she experiments, that adds +6 from Fiona's and Sheelagh's Inventive Genius, and an average of 5 on the die roll, so call it +11 for a Lab Total of 72. She can then enchant it in two seasons. She can add +6 Penetration (+3 to the effect level, bringing it up to 48) and still do it in two seasons. And that's without looking for S&M bonuses.

Not too shabby.

Did you remember to add 8 for the Similar Spell?

Oh! That reminds me! I want to equip my grog with a ring that creates an unlimited number of aerodynamic shields, with each lasting a minute. Or maybe two spells, one creating actual throwing knives and the other creating the shields. Of course, he'll need some real throwing knives on him too....hrm....maybe a third spell that's basically a knife version of Crystal Dart....

No, I didn't. That brings her LT up to 80, with experimenting. Still can't pull it off in one season, but she can in two, and add another 10 to Penetration (16 Penetration total) (+5 to the Effect Level, bringing it up to 53). Still doable.