I threw it over to the main forums to see if it is, indeed, an errata or what the Grand Tribunal thinks of it.
I would say it is Grog errata, if anything, or at least limit it to Grogs. It certainly isn't built into MetaCreator.
A quick peek at Magi of Hermes suggests that this was followed for building those Magi.
I've regularly broken this (unwritten) rule, though.
Ra'am has Str -4 and Dex -2: for a total of -9
Talia has Str -3, Dex -2, Qik -1 for a total of -10.
OOTH, albeit unwittingly, I can't think or find any of my characters that doesn't follow it 
Note that your 2 characters above can be easily fitted withing it: Ra'am just has to have Dex -1, and Talia Str -2.
Nonetheless (probably due to my way of thinking), I think it is actually a pretty good rule, and not only for grogs. I mean, I've seen a character with Int +3, Sta +3, Com +3 and Str/Dex/Qik-3, and it was as ugly as ridiculous.
I mean, I tend to think that, especially for magi, there are easily dumped stats, and it is easy for fall into it.
I've tried designing grogs for ME, and, from a purely mechanical perspective, I was stricken that there's almost no reason for every one of them not to have Int and Com -3, and absolutely none to have a positive ones (while, in theory, Int is a great stat for a Turb Captain).
This limits that, in that you can be very weak in some limited respect (say, Ra'am's strength), but you can't be very weak in about half of what you do and awesome at the other half. If you want to be awesome at that other half? There's Improved Characteristics (a seldom used virtue, save for a few warrior-magi)
Sorry for the rant 
It's not something I'm inclined to "fix." If someone wants to play a character to extremes, more power to them.
Why can't people be so bad at something and so good at other things? It's a vulnerability that people may want to play to.
Talia's Characteristics: Int +3, Per +3, Pre +1, Com +1, Str -3, Sta +2, Dex -2, Qik -1
I like that character. Sure, I could dump Sta and Dex and call it done, but I don't want to do that. Maybe it's selfishness or munchkinism. I don't know.
Oh, and a positive Int is useful for a loremaster type of grog. Being able to recall facts on demand is extremely useful. So that Magic Lore 5 and Int +2 gives him a 7, or an average of 12-13, meaning he can, on average remember "hard" facts with some degree of success. I think Intelligence is an under-rated skill in 5th edition. I mean in 4th edition it was the single most necessary skill, but in 5th edition, I think many successful magi could have negative intelligence, as it doesn't have a huge impact on lab totals, and has no impact on casting totals. Its effect on Certamen (and who engages in certamen often?) is muted as it is used in the Weakening Total, but that's derived from Attack advantage which is Presence based, and how many magi have a positive presence?
A stupid Tremere with the force of will to push his magic onto you... Hmmm, interesting concept. Thanks!
I abbreviate it by slightly pausing at the keyboard, reverently, before omitting all the letters. 8)
I've moved this over here from the Eskil thread. Some good clean fun trying to figure out what the rules say!
I'm not sure I agree with the underlined part: I think "no botch" still leaves the possibility for a total of 0.
Here's what I think is going on. Let's write the spell out explicitly first:
Unraveling the Fabric of My Own (Form)
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind
This spell will cancel the effects of any one spell of a specified Form whose level is less than or equal to (spell level + 15 + stress die (no botch)). There are 10 variants that cover each Hermetic Form....
(Base effect, +1 Touch)
I'm assuming we'll agree about this modification of the book's UtFoF. Both are consistent with the mechanic
This spell will cancel the effects of any one spell of a specified Form whose level is less than or equal to (spell's Base level + 20 + stress die (no botch)).
This in turn is consistent with the (errata-ed) PeVi guideline
Dispel effects of a specific type with a level less than or equal to the Base level + 4 magnitudes of the Vim spell + a stress die (no botch)
once the word Base is inserted to clarify matters. (They're consistent, that is, if we equate "4 magnitudes" with "20 levels"; this is debatable for low-level spells, but let's ignore that for now.)
So a level-L UtFoMOF spell will dispel a spell of level (L+15+stress die). This is independent of whether the level-L UtFoMOF is cast formulaically or spontaneously.
To get the numbers to work out more nicely, let's say I have Pe 6, Vi 6, Sta 2, and I get a 6 on my die roll to spont a spell with Fatigue. My Casting Total (if no aura) is (20/2) = 10. So I've successfully cast a level-10 UtFoMOF, which has a Base level of 5. This means I can dispel a spell that's level (20+stress die) - a good chance of reaching my own level-25 spell. (I said level 30 above, but that seems to be a stretch.) Does this agree with how you'd calculate it?
For smaller levels, the magnitude-vs.-level distinction gets confusing for me. Let's say still I have Pe 6, Vi 6, Sta 2, but now I'm sponting without Fatigue. My Casting Total (if no aura) is (14/5) = 3. (Round off, or round down? Let's go with 3.) So I've successfully cast a level-3 UtFoMOF, which has a Base level of 2. Does this mean I can dispel a spell that's level (10+stress die), since level 2 + 4 magnitudes is level 10?
(What I said about Pe 0, Vi 0, Sta 0, non-Fatiguing spont is rubbish. I always forget that you don't get a die roll when non-Fatiguing....)
It looks to me like the spell description for Unraveling the Fabric of (Form) takes into account the added modifiers for Voice Range, which is +2 Magnitudes. That is, instead of (per the guidelines) being Base + 4 Magnitudes (or Base + 20 levels, which is how it works out to be nine times out of ten) for R: Personal, it's Base + 2 Magnitudes for R: Voice (which is +2 Magnitudes). So, L=B+4=B+2+2.
Oh, and house rule is that everything divided rounds to the nearest even number. So, your example would round to 2.
... which will then follow the magi's exemple, and have Str, Qik and Dex as dump stats 
Yes, I noticed the same thing.
It's supposedly relatively common in the order, yet it seldom happens around a table. I hope this isn't because you can't kill your opponent.
IIRC, you're right: Stress die without botch still mean that 0 = 0, it's just that you don't roll botch dices.
...
And I spend an eternity writing the exact same thing on your character thread 
Duh! I could have spared the time 
Casting at touch range?
Base 2, + 1 touch?
This means you cancel a lvl 2 + 4 magnitudes - 1 magnitude for touch = lvl 05 spell. Plus stress roll, of course.
(For the record: Having the magnitudes for range and all being dropped from the guidelines before determining the final effect is how all these spells work, including DEO)
Ask Marcus if Qik is a dump stat. If you can defeat many of your opponent's spells and cast your own before he can respond, it's not altogether a dump stat.
I think it's boring to play through, by and large.
I'm saying, I'm treating a stress die without a botch roll of 0 as equal to 10. It's not a discussion, it's my interpretation. Of course, if you want it to equal zero, sure find table consensus and overrule me. 
Got tonsillitis at GenCon. Been bed-ridden all week. Trying to catch up now.
Dude! Stop touching people at cons.
I've not seen much of any dice rolling here on the forums when we can help it. But around my table (back in 3rd Ed), we were ALWAYS throwing around Certamen challenges, sometimes for things as quibbling as to determine who got to stand in the front of the buffet line (in which case, someone else would always manage to sneak away with the prized turkey leg).
Dude! Stop touching people at cons.
[/quote]
I was actually terrified that it was Chicken Pox, because the daughter of the family I was staying with got innoculated for Chicken Pox the day before I got sick, and the doctor warned that any adults who didn't have it could catch it.
Seriously, though, this means that I've now been sick through 2 of my three majors shows for the year. Not Good (tm). Expect hare-brained money-making schemes shortly.
G'Day Folks,
I've been speaking with Jonathan.Link, and he's invited me to create a magus to join your merry little band. I've started going over the saga, and it looks absolutely super.
The fellow I have in mind is a politically-minded Bjornaer, someone concerned with, and perhaps tasked by his elders to investigate, the vulnerabilities of being a non-Latin based house. Certain members of the House have read their history, and saw how neatly house Deidne was isolated and eliminated, and want to be prepared for this possibility. As such, my magus has been dispatched to the political hotbed that is your covenant.
As to the magus himself, I am strongly considering a weather/auram specialist, with a lesser focus on mentem magic (toying with the mythic resonance between air and mind). As for heartbeast, he would be a falcon, and an Epitome Falcon of Quickness at that. I'm in the process of toying with a few builds. Likely a major focus on weather magic ... would this include lightning creating spells such as the Incantation of Lightning? How would a major flaw Driven: protect House Bjornaer sound?
I look forward to your thoughts.
Sounds pretty interesting. And, coincidentally, a little bit like my two Bjornaer pbp characters (Peregrine, an auram specialist from the Mystikae Eikona saga), and Cygna (a mentem spirit specialist from Phoenix: Rise from the Ashes and the Shores of Albion sagas). Not that there's anything wrong with that 
His motivations sound pretty sound, especially since the house of Birna was rumoured to have taken in refugees from Diedne (as was Merinita), and I would be surprised if that weren't an area of some concern for the Bjornaer.
Also...I think lightning creation is almost a give for a weather focus.
Oh, pshah! A weather wizard's ability to generate dew has MUCH greater weather/combat potential than any mere bolt of lightning.
Tangent: A small African country, Swaziland has more deaths by lightning strike than any other two causes of death combined. Yet, if you google "Lightning Capital of the World," the links all say Tampa.
With all due respect...
I talk about Int and Com being dump stats for a fighter grog . You answer me that it isn't for a Loremaster. So I say, sure, but he can dump Str, Dex and Qik.
Now, you tell me that Qik ain't a dump stat for Marcus.
How is this relevant or invalidates my previous exemples?
I could say that Marcus could be designed like this, using dump stats:
Int +3, Qik +3, Per +3, Str -3, Dex -3, Sta +3, Com -3, Pre +1.
I note that I did this without looking at his sheet. But when I do? He looks like this:
Int +3, Qik +3*, Per +3, Str -3, Dex -3, Sta +2, Pre - 2, Com +1.
Thanks for proving my point.
Either most characters shouldn't be caricatures, and that limits helps that, or, mechanically speaking (and Marcus brilliantly demonstrates that), there's no point in not taking dump stats for most characters and having this kind of (IMO not very believable) build.
*improved to 4, with Great Dex
Quite possible. Could this be a stakes issue? Mechanically speaking, it ain't much more complex that combat.
Ah, ok. Hand't understood it that way.
I think this adds confusion, but don't care much.
Shudder This sounds so very disgusting!
You don't want a fighter grog with good com? He's a shield grog maybe? Listening and being able to interpret what the magi are telling him to do is a good thing. My point is that when I design a character I consider everything from the character. For every example that you offer of a character taking a "dump stat" I can offer a counter-example of why a character wouldn't think it's an unimportant stat. That is how it is relevant.
If your point is that characters of a certain concept have stats that are de-emphasized and you call them dump stats, then you've proven it. My point, however, is that for every stat you can find a rationale to make it important to the character. Quick librarian? Yeah, I think I could design one. My point is 1) this was never a rule stated explicitly in the main rule book 2) appears to be introduced only for grogs and 3) almost any character is a caricature of something. Fiona is the hot big girl. Isen is Iceman, cool under pressure...
Don't know. Perhaps
Why mention anything about it if you don't care? Keep in mind that there are several examples in the main rule book of use a stress die (no botch). If there is no chance of botch, then why does the zero matter? Why not make a it like the simple die where 0=10, ala the quality die from Ars 4? Why do I get so much grief when I try and give players advantages? If you don't like it, you can convince everyone else that on a stress die without a botch chance that 0=0 and not 10. I'll happily accede to the table. ((If you sense some...annoyance, for lack of a better word, you're probably not far off the mark.))
Well, that was what I was aiming for...