[Table Talk] Build Your Covenant!


I'll post about 100-150 points of book suggestions tonight or tomorrow.

Also, note that Steve said that we have lab texts for all the "Core" spells under level 20. That has to account for a lot of points right there.

I'll also suggest 50-100 pts of magical items, but these may wait until Friday.

Thanks for your understanding.


OK, here are my suggestions, using the partial list you came up with.

o Lvl 5, Q17 (Philosophia?- Aristotle, collected works, w/ commentary)
o Lvl 5, Q10 (Latin? Good Teacher!) (-2 Quality)
o Lvl 4, Q 8 ______? (Law? Theology? Local Lore?...)(-8 Quality)
o Lvl 4, Q 7 (Area Lore? Maps?...)(-5 Quality)
o Lvl 3, Q21 (Artes Liberales? Euclid & Ptolemy)
o Lvl 3, Q12 (Code of Hermes?)(-2 Quality)
o Lvl 3, Q10 (Order of Hermes Lore?)(-1 Quality)
o Lvl 3, Q 4 (Local Nobility Lore?)
(25 spare pts into...)
o Lvl 2, Q10 (Prof: Scribe?)
o Lvl 2, Q5 (Maybe... Premonitions?* Great Weapon? Faerie Lore?)

For the Level 4, Quality 8, a book on Parma "The Order's Balm" a copy of one of the original texts from House Bonisigus. While the book is popular, it is not easily achieved. If the copy ever got out of the Order's hand, its greatest secret could be revealed. Only trusted Covenants are allowed the book, with explicit instructions that no Mundane even opens it (it's got a sturdy lock on it), and that no expense spared to recover it.

Level 3 Quality 10 (Order of Hermes Lore). The Transcription of the Tribunal held in Blackthorn during the Schism War.

Instead of Local Nobility Lore (level 3, Quality 4) Make it a Finesse Book "The Hand Invisible", written by the previous resident Verditius, Magi that use the book to learn the skill from 0 often take the specialty: Using Magic to craft things. As an aside, the book could also include a labtext for the spell The Mystical Carpenter (ReHe 25) from the Covenants book page 51.

And then from the spare selections, a short book on Penetration (L 2 Q 5). "Laying the Beast Low" written by the apprentice of a Tremere Hoplite. In it the book details the travels of his Master and the magical and infernal beasts he fought, and how he used different connections and correspondences to get through seemingly impenetrable Might.

Well, those are very useful texts and well depicted (esp the one on Parma*), but you're taking Local Area Lore (maps and commentary on the area), Local Nobility Lore (who our neighbors/enemies/allies are), and something random (Great Weapons? Faerie Lore?) and turning them all to Hermetic texts.

That would leave a total of... one text (Philosophia) that is not directly associated with magi or apprenticeship (and even that is borderline). While ignoring mundane topics and focusing on Hermetic Abilities is great for individual magi, I'm not convinced it's good or even acceptable for a covenant, which has wider concerns, nor, from a SG point of view, for a story about that covenant or its library. A Library needs to be a source of general information as much as a resource to learn from, imo, and not a perfected adjunct for magi improvement (at least not without other functions.)

To me, a realistic Lib is a lot like a collectible card game- no matter how hard you work at trading up to the perfect deck, you're always going to have some questionable or inexplicable cards that are just... there. :wink: You can't get rid of them for anything more worthwhile, and occasionally they perfectly serve their small, narrow, dull purpose.

But we are just two voices, and there are 6 more to be heard. 8)

(Maybe we do need a lot more Ability Summae? We could dump two of our 5 "back up" Arts Summa and get 3 moderate Ability Summa (~ Lvl 3 Qual 7-8.) Or more? The SG's statement was that we had a great Lib, not just a great Arcane Lib. Maybe we are leaning too much in that one direction???

K- comments?)

[i](*Otoh, all things considered, I'm not sure a text on Parma would be "approved of" by the Order at all. Really, think about it - why accept the risk in the first place? Like a lock on the cover will solve the problem if it's stolen???

Otooh, it could be a secret text, something that we don't want advertised. Q's can't stop someone from writing it in the first place, only censure them once they find out, IF they find out. Meh, that's a bit of a stretch for a big Cov. Dunno.)[/i]

Good point about lacking variety in Mundane topics. I figure though those can also be learned from direct sources, such as exposure and tutelage.

The Parma book definitely has issues, it could provide a great story hook.

I want to make sure we keep a good Philosophaie text.

For skills that aren't in the library we could make sure we have some specialists, a consort of the local nobility can easily teach skills like Area Lore,; Nobility, Intrigue and Folk Ken. Another could be a Master-at-arms to teach more martial skills.

I wouldn't mind though dropping a few of the low end Arts books that are superfluous and making them into Mundane Abilities. Profession: Scribe being one.

A library, or more accurately any "text", provides 2 functions. One is as a study source, where the info becomes a part of the character, but the other is shorter-term research, where a character simply refers to the text for an answer to a question. If Fabrica had a personal text on "Organization Lore: House Verditius" in his sanctum, he could refer to it at his leisure whenever he needed to, and/or study it to have the same info (the same "roll") at his disposal. Even if he studies it, having it to refer to could allow a second roll.

There is no reason to learn either "European Area Lore" or "Hermetic Order Organization Lore", if all you want to know is what is the nearest city to Durenmar- IF you have that book! On the other hand, we don't want to have to go asking the local courtiers if the lord has any enemies if they work for that lord.

So some of these are just going to be referral books, perhaps even more than they'll ever be study sources. Hermetic Code, Area Lores (local or not), Local Noble/Church Lore- it's important to have that information at the covenant to refer to when needed, but not necessarily so much to spend the time to memorize it.

And, again, we'd need to pay for those, and teaching is not always the desired effect from a knowledge base...

Didn't know there was such a thing. :wink:
(As presented, there are no "superfluous" books. Any Art with two books would be a key Art, one with a high Quality for fast learning at lower Levels, and then a high Level with lower Quality for hard-core dedicated fanatics who just don't care how long it takes.)

But yeah, perhaps backing our Arcane Art Library down a bit and bumping the mundane Ability collection is the solution here.

Everyone else- thoughts?

Well, the SG said that it was a very good mundane library.
I like the mundane list Cuchulainshound listed.

OK, here are a few books for the consideration of the group:


Oh, the Wonders I Have Seen 31 build points

Divine Lore Summa L4 Q10
Theology Tractatus Q6
Magic Theory Tractatus Q6
Order of Hermes Lore Q6

Probably the best text on the topic of Divine Lore in the Order of Hermes. While there are probably a few texts of greater depth on the matter, none compare with the insight provided not only as it relates to the works and agents of God, but also as God's works rleative to the Order in particular.

A very large book. The text is written in a flowing script with extraordinary illuminations on the finest lambskin parchment. Bound between two covers constructed of peices of ancient grapevines with embroidered silk inner faces and vellum flyleaves. The author is belived to be Magus Nerius' amicus.

Into The Pit

Infernal Lore Summa L5 Q10
Magic Theory Tractatus Q7
Lab Text "Preventing the Corrupting Touch"
-- A personal range ward against Might 20 demons: ReVi 20
Lab Text "A sound mind"
-- Design TBD
Lab Text "Peaceful Rest for My Men"
-- Room target ward against Might 30 demons: ReVi 40

A truly harrowing account of Magus Quaesitor Felix Jerbitonis, his capture by a coven of diabolists he was persuing, imprisonment in a large Infernal regio, and his escape from it. Felix appears to wander in his writing, but in actual truth, these are long digressions where he amplifies his points by personal example from other encounters and sound reasoning. A significant proportion of the Order that has read this book considers it wildly exagerrated and needlessly lurid.

It should be noted that Felix, horribly scarred by years of torture, afflicted by multiple Twilight events, and cursed with continual nightmares requested to withdraw from queasitorial duty and retire. Archmagus Queasitor Eustis Guenicus, Primus of House Guernicus at the time, appealed to Felix's sense of duty and asked him to remain as an arbitor. The Quesitors paid to have several rituals designed specifically for him so as to ease his pain and he was eventually able to write this and several lesser texts. He is the only magus that took demon and diabolist hunting as a career known to have died of old age. When written, the text was glossed by Archmagus Eustis.

The Fundamentals of Laboratory Work

3 Magic Theory Tractatus all Q7
House Verditius Lore Tractatus Q6
Several Lab Texts

A copy of the first of four works written by the only Vertiditus magus who has written for general consumption by the Order. This text discusses the basics of setting up the lab for general magical work, touches on methods for specializing for most any kind of work, and then delves deeply into the particular needs of a lab focussed either on enchanting items or alchemy. If the reader has been initiated into the Mystery of Verditius Runes, the reader will recognize an underlying (and, probably, unintended) thread explaining some of the connections with magical craftwork and its development in the Order.

There are also a few lab texts for enchnments for protecting a text from normal laboratory hazards such as spills, fires, tears, etc. The author wrote these very specifically NOT to reveal any of the peculiarities of Verditius enchantment mysteries.

Magical Craftwork

Finesse Summa L4 Q10
Terram Tractatus Q7
Herbam Tracctatus Q7
Several Lab Texts

A copy of the second of four works by this Verditii, this text identifies methods for the magus to make lab fixtures and items for their living space from raw materials. While not specifically dealt with, the text is quite deep and therefore allows the magus studying the text to broadly apply the techniques for controlling magic well beyond simple furniture and equipment. It includes several lab texts for example spells.

On an Apprentice's Foolishness

Folk Ken Summa L3 Q10
Vim Tractatus Q7

This text has to be one of the strangest tractatus in the Order. Magister Rudolf Bonisagi of the Rhine Tribunal was known as one fo the great teachers of the Order in the 1100s and had trained 5 apprentices on his own as well as assisted many others. Late in his life he wrote several works and each of them had a somewhat comic cast to them. This one, however, was easily the one that every mature magus seems to want.

He affectionaltely writes in this one of a great many of the pratfalls and humorous errors in understanding and execution in educating apprentices in the Art of Vim. He does not attribute any of these anecdotes to a particular apprentice and it should be noted that, in the original, all five submitted letters validating that "Of the stories in here that are about me, and there are more than I care to admit, I know them to be true." All five filia briefly endured a a few pointed jests from their soldales when the book came out, but each have reputations as excellent teachers and researchers.

Do Gods Really Walk Among Us?

Faerie Lore Tractatus Q7

A short tractatus on Faerie Lore. The author was one Gertrude of House Meranita and was written a short time after Quendalon took power. It is clear that this maga regretted her siding with Quendolon.


Well, folks, I hope this helps. I'm currently compiling a list of historical works to include.

I recommend that we actually have a lot of tractatus in mundane topics (Phil, AL, Mundane Lores, and the like). Adds flavor and gives us (another) mundane trade source. Just a thought.


Hmmm... I see that none of the above have been included in any previous suggestions for the lib. Am I to take it that yours is another vote for expanding the mundane texts? (Regardless, I'm starting to agree with that view.)

(Otoh, OOC, mundane works are easier to acquire in play than Hermetic ones, if only because we can acquire them thru a... wider variety of methods.) 8)

OK, the Arcane Lib gets thinned a bit, and the slop goes toward more mundane texts- I'd expect ~4-5 additional, which should be mundane topics, to maintain a balance. I'd suggest a couple "vanity" works by local no-names, on their family history or other such Local Lores.

The previous lists have largely been prioritized for "learning", both for magi and apprentices. Imo, both from a Player and Troupe story-telling standpoint, before we get those, we need, at a minimum, the following texts, if only for reference:* Area Lore of Europe (to duplicate our OOC knowledge of the AM map of the Tribunals etc etc.)

  • Area Lore of "Ireland"
  • Local or Irish Noble Organization Lore
  • Local Tribunal Organization Lore
  • A book on the Hermetic Code
  • A book on C&C Law*
  • (Possibly?) a book on the fae (for obvious pressing reasons.)
    (* and another on English Common Law if that extends anywhere near us! K?...)

These should be solid Level but only need be moderate Quality, as it's the content and not the ease of reading that matters for research- so long as it's there, we'll find it.

We might not have all of those, but we "need" them, imo, just to operate as a covenant.

Any additional texts, for either reference or "learning" purposes, should be on top of those.

I'll attempt a synthesis of the various ideas from above, everyone's suggestions/preferences for mundane texts, and a "reduced" list for the Arcane ones, and see if we can't find an acceptable middle ground (or at least determine that we can't have both, and then we'll know it's time for tougher decisions.)

For those who have not yet had the chance to chime in, any time is fine before the final version is voted on - it's not like you've missed out, since nothing has been finalized yet. More suggestions always welcome (so long as, if you ask for "more", you include how we'll pay for that!)

(It may ~seem~ like a lot has been discussed, but if we were face to face/tabletop having the same exchange, you'd miss more if you went to the bathroom. We're only just now narrowing in on something useful.) :wink:

Will make that post later today- have an appt in half an hour.

(Oh- and we could hire a Specialist for some of the Mundane topics, but then we must trust them with all our questions and etc, and can't exactly "copy" their knowledge. Also, a "teacher" (with that skill) is more expensive (tho not as much as the text itself), and usually less effective except that they can teach groups. see p72 Col iii, and 164 Col iii )

Looking forward to it.

As for a "Teacher Specialist", I don't see any of us taking on an apprentice in the near future so the need is not urgent.

I imagine a suitable donation to the local church could address teaching Latin to children if required. My magus may be willing to act in the capacity of covenant teacher for a season (particularly if relieved of vis collection duties and compensated appropriately).

I'm thinking it might make a good story for my magus (or Daggin, or both) in that he has some scholarly contacts both through his House and through his time reading at Oxford. We may be able to combine the roles of Teacher and Librarian. Just set up a suitable space off the Library and away you go.

Anyway, let's not spend the build points on a Lore Master/Teacher/Librarian right now. We can plug that hole by the time we really need it.

Just my two cents,


Bear in mind that any specifics I've mentioned, like most lab texts for the common spells L20 and under, will be handled by SG Fiat. I say they're there, so they are there, no pints need to be spent on them. This will be 25 texts of common, useful spells, L20 and under, donated by previous members, or through trades.

English Common Law applies only on the Norman side of things, which is about 2 days ride east. By 1230, this will only apply to "The Pale" (Dublin and it's immediate surrounding counties). What constitutes Law in Ireland is usually the reach of the ruling nobility's arm. Since the church is a moderating influence, Civil and Canon Law would probably be most applicable, especially in Connacht, where wisdom, intellect, and judgement are tradition.


Cool- that helps considerably, tho' there is no limit to the spells we could use in that part of the Lib. 50 spells of Level 25-30 (50/50%), would be exactly the points we have spent until (1375 Levels, 275 pts), now- we can back that off a bit, I suppose, in the name of the Mundane Lib.


[color=indigo][size=134]The Mark III attempt at the Points Expenditure[/size]
(perhaps actually narrowing in on a final version... one can only hope...)

Total Points spent:
_895 Library 470 - Arts Summae (18 books)
_80 - Tractati (12 texts on Arts and/or Abilities mixed)
345 - Abilities Summae (20 texts)_200 Lab Texts (1000 levels, & 500 gratis from SG)
_210 Vis
__80 Magic Items
__65 Specialists

[color=indigo][size=150]Resources [/size]

[size=117] Library[/size]

Arts Summae
(470 pts, 18 books, T/F listed in no particular order)
[color=red](-2 bks, -40 pts)

Techniques:o L20 Q11
o L18 Q10
o L15 Q15, L 5 Q18
o L13 Q19
o L10 Q16
(170 pts)Forms:o L18 Q12
o L16 Q 9, L 8 Q17
o L15 Q 8
o L14 Q11
o L12 Q18
o L12 Q10, L10 Q15
o L11 Q17
o L10 Q11
o L 8 Q21
o L 5 Q12 (stopgap replacement for lost/missing text?!)
(300 pts)

Tractati (Arts and/or Abilities, mixed)
(To write, Qual = 6+Comm, so ~6-7 are going to be common.)
(85 pts, 12 texts)
[color=red](-3 bks, -20 pts)o Q11
o Q9
o Q8
o Q8 - Great Weapon, "The Art of the PoleArm", Ch. 1 only, w/ illustrations. Trans. from the Italian
o Q7
o Q7
o Q7
o Q6
o Q6
o Q6
o Q5
o Q5
o Q3 (Very weak- Possibly a Supernatural Ability, or written by an Incomprehensible Author, and/or a corrupted (poorly copied) copy to explain low quality)

Abilities Summae
(345, 20 texts)
[color=blue](+145 pts, +12 texts)

Level Qual Subject Notes $
[b]Core Books[/b] 175
5 17 Philosophia Aristotle, in translation
5 10 Magic Theory A thoughtful and in-depth text by a noted Bonisagus
4 7 Area Lore: Europe A vast but unorganized collection of various Maps & Notes
3 21 Artes Liberales Original Author, w/ later commentaries, an exceptional work
3 12 The Code of Hermes Learned Commentaries from several noted Quasitores on various Tribunal rulings & precedents
3 11 Organization Lore: Hibernian Tribunal Covenants, Praecos, Redcaps, main figures, & customs, etc
2 9 Civil & Canon Law
2 8 Area Lore: Eire land "A Pilgrim's Journey", with insightful observations on places, personages and legends.
[b] Important Books[/b] 65
3 7 Parma "Parodoxes of Parma" - Only a Criamon would have the balls to write such. Average Quality but Incomprehensible cuts Study Totals in half. This book is as controversial as it is sought after, and some Quasitors seek to rule all copies should be burned. It would be a High Crime to allow it to fall into the hands of any mundane.
3 8 Finesse "The Subtleties of Magical Craftwork as Art"
2 9 Penetration
[i]NOTE: The next two "texts" are combined into one rambling narration, contributing in part to the poor Quality.[/i]
2 5 Organization Lore: Local Nobles an account of a local coronation(?), with commentary on those attending. Not as recent as it might be.
1 5 Orgnztn Lore: Local Church an account of a local coronation(?), with commentary on those attending. Not as recent as it might be.
[b]Other Books [/b] 105
3 7 Magic Realm
2 10 Prof: Scribe calligraphy & technique
2 16 Norman French (the lang of Nobles in England and NW France)
2 7 Faerie Lore Mab's own brief & incomprehensible attempt to educate the locals
2 10 Folk Ken "Of the Foolishness of Apprentices"
2 5 Common Law a collection of disorganized notes for an unfinished text
[i](NOTE- I like the idea of combining a few different features- Summa, Tractatus, perhaps Spells - under a single title. I have not done so yet here (waiting until we get a consensus on the points first.)[/i]

The subjects that are not represented in this suggested version (with apologies) include:* Organization Lore: Order of Hermes

  • Infernal Lore
  • Domain Lore
  • Medicine (a standard for a lot of Hermetic research as well)
  • Music
  • X Supernatural Ability (which I had wanted to represent)
  • Ettiquette
  • Additonal Languages, living or dead
  • Theology (we ARE in a high-church area)
  • Teaching
  • A book in a different language than Latin!!! Greek? Hebrew? Islaamic? The local tongue? Norman French??? (another realistic story device.)
    Some others, above, are not of great use or popularity- those represent an imperfect world. Others are more for reference than study, or at least as much one as the other - the maps, for instance, and the law and Lores.

Lab Texts
[color=red](-75 pts, -375 Levels, [color=blue] +500 Levels from SG)

Now @ 200 pts, 1000 Levels of Lab Texts, but this is now in addition to the "most lab texts for the common spells L20 and under,... handled by SG Fiat... 25 texts of common, useful spells, L20 and under, donated by previous members, or through trades..."

Suggested "no-brainers"- o ReVi 30 - Aegis of the Hearth (or Level ___???)
o InAq 30 - Enchantment of the Scrying Pool (a couple of lakes/ponds nearby)
o CrCo 25 _____??? (Restoration of Defiled Body? other?)
o ReHe 25(?) Ward vs Fae of the Water
o ReHe 25(?) Ward vs Fae of the Wood
o MuVi 20(?) Wizard's Communion (?)

= ~155 pts[color=blue][size=117]OPEN CALL (for players only)!!![/size]
For this list, every Player is requested to participate by submitting the following:

Lab texts for ~150 levels, including at least one Ritual, and one enchantment of around Level 25 or so.

About half the spells should be of "general use" to the covenant, rather than of "personal" use to a mage. By this, things like The Inexorable Search or Healing spells are "generally useful", while Pilum of Fire or Wings of the Soaring Wind is only of "personal" utility. Most (but not all) Rituals are Generally Useful.

You can plan for personal growth for your own magus, but also should consider the interests of the previous/senior magi*, and also the inevitably random nature of such a collection. (ie, to be fair and add fun and flavour, at least 1 spell should be of "relatively no interest" to your mage, and possibly to anyone!)

(* Mab is Merenita, Dierdre Flambeau. Gone are a Verditius, a Jerbiton, an ex Misc. "healer", and a Bonisagus/seafarer" )

It should also include any Level 20 or lower spells that you absolutely want to make sure are included in the collection! The SG's 500 levels means an average of only 10 levels from each TeFo combo, so there will be a LOT missing!

With 5 active players, that should cover ~750 levels, including ~300+ levels "generally useful" to the Covenant, and at least 5 additional Rituals and 5 enchantments, and we can go from there with the remaining 250 pts for things like the above Aegis & etc.


175 pts = 35/year, varied types.
_35 pts = 175 stockpiled (or ~11-12 pawns/Art on average.)

Enchanted Items
(80 pts)

200 levels:o ~1 item of Level 35-40 (complex?) enchantment
o ~3 Level 20-30+ "major" enchantments
o ~100 levels of Level 5-15 lesser enchantments We have been told...

We'll burn thru 200 levels in a blink. 4 major items, plus a half-dozen or so much lesser ones, scattered about for various purposes (many fixed to the covenant, such as heating or light, etc) will not seem like that many. If it's still too many, easily enough reduced.
I'd suggest we each contribute, but with 5 active players that would be only about 40/, and could be rather patchy. But those who haven't suggested items are welcome to before we make our final decisions!

65 ptso 5- Angus
o 28 Fae Guards (7x4)
o 6 Velum Maker
o 6 Blacksmith (Unless this will be a Companion???)
o 5 Scribe
o 7 MineBoss (age 36-40?)
o 4 Smelter
o 4 Woodsman/Ranger/Tracker

+6 pts extra, gained from removal of Blacksmith "specialist" now played as a Companion.

There.  If it's not done it looks pretty close.  Open to suggested changes, I see myself somewhere between a random starting point and acting as the scribe who's combining everyone's ideas, but remember- if you suggest something you'd like to see in the final version, you also need to suggest how we're going to pay for it!!!  :wink:

To lead our target, once(!) we've nailed the points expenditure down, we go with the details.  We've finalized the Specialists, and ~1/3 of the Library (tho' the tough third!)

We've started on Magic Items, so that and Lab Texts should be finished before we move on, and should be easy enough to finish.  Once we cover that, we can discuss how to allocate the Arts Summa, and which flavours of Vis we're collecting (tho' I'll be our SG will have ideas on that too!)  So think about these, but hold off on discussing them for the now.

(Later Edit- adding in summation of suggested [size=134][b][color=darkred]Covenant Magic Items[/b][/size] below...)
200 Levels:

[b]Stop the thief[/b]
(soft stone, small = 3 * 2 pawns of vis)
This item will only allow specific persons to remove books from the library.  It has two effects, one to detect when a book is being removed and the other to sound an alarm.

[i]Locate the Tome[/i]
InAn (Te) (50)
base 4, range:voice +1, dur:conc +2, target:group +2, intricate +1
2 uses +1, environmental trigger +3, item maintains conc +5, 22 pen +11
Detects if a book is being removed by someone not wearing a covenant ring.  Pen is added in case someone tries to magically disguise a book or user their Parma on it.

[i]Sound the alert[/i]
CrIm 10 
base 1, range pers, dur mom, target ind, +1 clear sound
linked trigger +3lvl, 24 uses/day +5
Sounds like a bell ringing loudly from the doorway.


[u]Enchantments for Library[/u]:
[color=red][i](Edited as per Fluffy's suggestions)[/i]

Lvl 20, [u]The Glow of the Candelabra[/u]:
Base 2 (Candlelight), +1 Touch*, +3 Structure, +2 Sun.
Usable only once/day, usually turned on at sunset by the Librarian.  It bathes the entire library in a soft light, adequate (if not optimal) to read by.
*According to the definition of "Range: Personal", no target greater than "individual" can be used with that.
[i](Still having trouble here- would like to make it 24 hours)[/i]

3 x Lvl 9 - [u]personal Lamp without Flame[/u]
Base 3 (torchlight), +2 Sun, +1 Lvl 2x/day, (+3 Env trigger)

The Librarian uses this to find specific texts, peer into dark corners, and/or do his own works in the Library, and has one spare to loan out to non-magical guests and for other uses.  Angus has the 3rd.

The "environmental trigger" lights the lamp automatically at sunrise/sunset [u]only[/u] if it is already "lit", thus it does not "spring to life" on its own.

[i](Could this just be a spell with duration: Ring?  If the ring were set into a candlestick platter, would the light "spill out" to read by, or exist only within that ring?  

Additionally, "reading tables" could be inscribed with such a ring and spell, more or less permanantly- that would be cheaper, but not solve the problem of needing a portable light to find stuff.)[/i]

2x Lvl 20 [u]Brazier to Heat the Hall[/u]
Base 2, +1 Touch, +2 Room, +2 Sun,  +1 Level use 2x/day, +2 Lvls variable temp, +2 Lvls special Ignem light effect.
Wrought Iron Brazier that produces false, low glowing "hot coals" (only slightly hotter than boiling water if touched, so unable to ignite material) but heats the entire room in which it is placed.  The heat produced is adjustable to maintain a "comfortable" temperature.  These are usually found in the Library and Main Hall.

[i]Now, sad to say, that's already ~90 Levels!  See, it goes REALLY fast with only a bit of return.[/i]

[u][size=117][color=blue][b]Suggestions for Magic Items[/b][/size][/u]

[u]Covenant Safehold[/u]

I envision an underground vault, with two sets of bronze-bound oaken doors, one at the top and one at the bottom of a stairway, carved from the living rock, but whatever works.

Top Doors- mundane key.

Lower Doors- dummy keyhole.  An over-sized oaken beam thoroughly bars the bronze-shod door from the inside.

[u]Door Bar[/u]
Level 10 ReHe.
Base 3, +2 Conc, +1 Item Maintains Concentration (ie, cannot be moved "by hand").

The bar both fits into brackets to hold it in place, and the magic itself does so as well, so both a mundane and magical barring exists.

To open, a mage must lean in close and speak a long trigger phrase in Latin- not hard for an educated man to memorize, but it would be difficult for any to catch at first pass (without magic).  Then, their concentration can control the bar, opening & closing at will.

[u]The Thief's Soft Footfall[/u]
Level 10, MuTe/Aq
Base 3 (slightly unnatural- thin mud), +1 Stone, +1 Touch, +0 Momentary, +0 1x/day, +1 (x10 mass) 

A large area of thick flagstone located in the center of the entryway, this trap is simple and effective.  If anyone steps near the center of the large stone slab, it turns momentarily to mud, then re-solidifies, trapping the feet of the central intruder and any near them for a full day until it can be activated again (and then they better be fast!)  Any competent mage forgetful enough to step into this can easily enough free themselves.

[u]Stone that Holds Secrets[/u]
Lvl 8 MuTe
Base 1, +1 Stone, +1 Part, +1 Concentration, +1 Item Maintains Contentration,  +3 Levels Effect Use (now limited to Mab & Dierdre!)

A part of the living stone wall has been enchanted to open/close on command, revealing a set of stone shelves where the Covenant's valuables are kept.  (There is also a false "strongbox" set into the opposite wall, with appropriate false spells cast upon it.)


Magical Lights & Heat- check.
Magical defenses for vis- check
[i](Not that these are locked, but they've been suggested...)[/i]

[b]Buffs for Grogs:[/b]
(One of the previous magi was "an armourer", so...)

[u]The Dancing Man[/u]
Level 20 ReTe
Base 1, +2 metal, +1 Conc, +2 group(???) +1 item maintains conc, +1 complex
Spell supports and moves a full suit of chain armour as the wearer moves, eliminating most all the "load", dropping the effective load from 6 to .5.

[u]Resiliant Vest[/u]
Lvl 10 MuHe/Te base 4, +1 Diameter, +5 levels 24 uses/day, 
Transform a doublet to a steel-like substance, giving it +3 armour value.  Only lasts for Diameter.

[u]The 10 of Swords[/u]
30 MuTe
Base 3, +2 Voice, +1 Diam, +2 metal, +2 group
Named for a tarot card, this item casts "Edge of the Razor" on a group of swords...
[i](Meh, this turns out to be too expensive for the effect, imo, and I'd want it usable a couple times/day at least. I'd delete it, but it's already here as an example, if a bad one...)[/i]

[u]Enchanted Sword[/u]
MuTe 10
Base 3, +2 Metal, +1 Diameter.
A single sword or axe that can be given "Edge of the Razor" once/day for Duration Diameter.  More than one of these might be in circulation (esp since several could be made at once in a single season by a decent Armourer mage.)

[u]Gift of the Night Hunter[/u]
Lvl 10 MuCo
Enchanted dingus that casts "Eyes of the Cat" at touch up to 24x/day.  Altho' probably several similar items may have been made in one season, the others have been lost or traded away.  Kept by the Turb Leader in the Grog Quarters.

Here's my 150 points worth

CrCo 40 (R) Incantation of the Body made whole
CrAn 20 (R) Soothe pains of the Beast
MuTe 10 The Crystal Dart
PeC0 15 Dust to Dust
CrAu 25 Clouds of Rain and Thunder
MuAq 20 Lungs of the Fish

Item: Healing wand, 1 use per day
CrCo 20 Purification of the Festering wound

The item may be lying around somewhere right now, as it's a pretty handy thing to have.

[color=blue][size=150]Lab Texts[/size]

(Updated as players contribute their 150 pts, and then the slop is finalized between all.

Refer to blue text, 2 posts above, for details.)

150 - Brutus eV- Mathius
150 - Cuchulainshound - Daggin
----- - marklawford - Corvus
150 - qcipher - Fabrica
150 - Verticius - Stephen
----- - Approved group picks* (x/250)
600 Total/1000

(* Suggested "no brainer" group picks, that do not count against any one player's 150.*


Animal* ReAn 5 Binding the Mundane Codex - Binds up to 1000 bifold pages into a book.

  • CrAn 20 (Ritual) Soothe pains of the Beast
  • CrAn 35 The Wizard's Mount (Base, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +1 Size)

Aquam* MuAq 20 Lungs of the Fish

  • ReAq 25(?) Ward vs Fae of the Water*
  • InAq 30 - Ritual- Voice of the Sea- As Voice of the Lake, but Boundary, and thus any body of water is acceptable, no matter the size.
  • InAq 30 (Ritual) Enchantment of the Scrying Pool*

Aurum* CrAu 20 - Aeolus' Blessing (Base 2 = Wind, +2 Voice, +1 Unnatural, +2 Sun, +1 Adjustable)- creates a good wind, but only in the general area. Adjustable with Concentration.

  • CrAu 25 Clouds of Rain and Thunder

Corpus* PeC0 15 Dust to Dust

  • CrCo30 Cheating the Reaper (Ritual) (Base, +1 Touch) Resolves a Serious Aging Crisis
  • ReCo 35 Leap of Homecoming
  • CrCo 40 The Gift of Another Day (Ritual) (Base, +1 Touch) Resolves a Terminal Aging Crisis.
  • CrCo 40 (Ritual) Incantation of the Body made whole

Herbem* ReHe 25(?) Ward vs Fae of the Wood*

  • InHe 25 - Architect's Eye - Base 4 (learn all mundane properties), +2 Voice, +2 Structure, +1 Complex- familiarize yourself with the layout of a wooden structure, such as a ship or building (but only the wooden parts, if mixed), and the state of repair of such. Includes secret passages and other such, but not fine detail such as small secret compartments.


  • CrIg 10 Heat of the Searing Forge


  • MuTe 10 The Crystal Dart
  • ReTe 20 The Spell of Wrought Metal (Touch, Mom, Group) Transforms raw metal from a furnace into bars of wrought and finished product as if worked in a forge. This requires an Int+Finesse of 9.11
  • ReTe 25 The Phantom Blacksmith (Touch, Mom, Group) Transforms raw metal into a crafted item, requiring a Per+Finesse roll of +3 for what a mundane blacksmith would require.
  • CrTe 35 Conjuring The Mystic Tower (casting tablet)

Vim* MuVi 20(?) Wizard's Communion*

  • ReVi 25 - Maintain the Demanding Spell
  • MuVi 30 - Wizard's Boost (Target)
  • ReVi 30(?)- Aegis of the Hearth*

*"Suggested" group picks (~250 pts worth) are in Italics, are asterisked, and are open for discussion/group approval.

Lab Texts for Items

(Note- This does NOT imply an existing example of the item described, which would require expenditure of additional points under the "Enchanted Items" category.)

Item Lab Text:
Healing wand, 1 use per day
CrCo 20 Purification of the Festering wound
Duration Moon
"The target gains +9 to recover rolls..." (see p 129)
(The item may be lying around somewhere right now, as it's a pretty handy thing to have.)

Item Lab Text:
Sailor's Foretaste of the Morrow.
InAu 20, Use 1x/day
Know precisely what tomorrow's weather will be, and general idea for the next week.

Item Lab Text:
The Rod of Inspiration ReCo 30
R: Touch D: Sun T: Individual
Base 10, +1 Touch, +2 Sun total 25, +3 (6 uses)

This device is often invested into items of correction and coercion; a rod, whip, even a leather glove. It is typically actived by a hard whack onto the target's face or back (not enough to cause a wound). Once struck the target will feel invigorated, angry even, and immune to the effects of pain and fatigue for the rest of the day (like Endurance of the Berzerker).

This lab text would allow the creation of a rod or suitable item to have 6 charges (lab text/ 5).

Item Lab Text:

Item Lab Text:

This may have been covered elsewhere, but are we using the Covenants book rules (with official errata) or are we sticking strictly with core rules?

I'll put my 150 points together this weekend.

Also, don't spend the points on a smith. My Companion and an NPC will fill that role. Companion skill level is 8 in blacksmithing and 4 in woodcrafting.


And some Chirurgy? (mmmm.... chirurgy....)

K, sounds good! 6 pts to patch a hole somewhere once we stand back and look at everything, and remember what we forget - we'll just pocket it for the time being.

Covenants or Core? I'm using Core - I asked when we first started talking about this and there was no response, so I proceeded with what I had. If Covenants is radically different, we're not locked, but someone else will have to make the translation and etc as I don't have access to a copy. :frowning:

If the rules do mesh, or if someone wants to run the numbers with those rules, then if you have a suggestion, sing out!

[color=blue]Lab Texts:

I figure that since there was a Bonisagus, Kallias Delphinus, a lot of the spell texts would be contributions from him, as per the Boni' requirement to share such.  And, since it seems he was a bit of a mariner...

CrAu 20 - Aeolus' Blessing (Base 2 = Wind, +2 Voice, +1 Unnatural, +2 Sun, +1 Adjustable)- creates a good wind, but only in the general area.  Adjustable with Concentration.
InHe 25 - Architect's Eye - Base 4 (learn all mundane properties), +2 Voice, +2 Structure, +1 Complex- familiarize yourself with the layout of a wooden structure, such as a ship or building (but only the wooden parts, if mixed), and the state of repair of such.  Includes secret passages and other such, but not fine detail such as small secret compartments.

ReVi 25 - Maintain the Demanding Spell
MuVi 30 - Wizard's Boost (Target) 

InAq 30 - Voice of the Sea-
As Voice of the Lake, but Boundary, and thus any body of water is acceptable, no matter the size.

Sailor's Foretaste of the Morrow.  
InAu 20, Use 1x/day

As one wizard casting spells has found out, the active aegis right now is L20. Doesn't mean there isn't a higher one in the library, but you never know... (I suspect Aegis of the Hearth winds up in every library at L5,10,15,20,25,30, etc...)

The Bonisagus resident, Glendower, was an experimenter, and a coward in the field (but a long lived coward). The Jerbiton, Kallias, was the seafarer and explorer.

Ok, here come the 25 spells in the library by fiat:

[color=brown]Doublet of Impenetrable Silk, MuAn15
[color=blue]Ward against the Beasts of Legend, ReAn20
[color=green]Circle of Beast Warding, ReAn 15
[color=cyan]Touch of the Pearls, InAq5
[color=blue]True Sight of the Air, InAu15
[color=blue]Sailor’s Foretaste of the Morrow, InAu20
[color=cyan]Bind Wound, CrCo10
[color=cyan]Purification of the Festering Wound, CrCo20
[color=cyan]Gentle Touch of the Purifed Body, CrCo20 (Ritual)
[color=cyan]Restoration of the Defiled Body, CrCo25 (Ritual)
[color=green]Sight of the True Form, InCo20
[color=blue]The Inexorable Search, InCo20
[color=brown]The Mighty Fling of the Menacing Knight, ReCo20
Ward Against Persistent Archers, ReHe20
[color=blue]Lamp without Flame, CrIg10
[color=brown]Ward Against Heat and Flames, ReIg25
Discern Images of Truth and Falsehood, InIm20
[color=green]Ring of Warding against Spirits, ReMe20
[color=red]Wall of Protecting Stone, CrTe25
[color=green]Piercing the Magic Veil, InVi20
[color=violet]Piercing the Faerie Veil, InVi20
[color=green]Wizard's Boost (Corpus), MuVi20
[color=red]Wizard's Reach (Ignem), MuVi20
Aegis of the Hearth, ReVi20
[color=green]Circular Ward Against Demons, ReVi20

Different colors indicate different authors; [color=red]Red is Diedre, [color=violet]Violet is Mab, [color=blue]Blue is Kallias, [color=brown]Brown is Torsten, [color=cyan]Cyan is Sylphie, [color=green]Green is Glendower. Black indicates the spell has no known author.

Spells not in the book:
Rego Herbam 20 : Ward against persistent Archers
Range : Touch
Duration : Diameter
Target : Group

Protects the Target and up to 9 allies from a single wooden attack every round for 2 minutes time.

(Base 4, +1 Range, +1 Duration, +2 Target)

Rego Corpus 20 : The Mighty Fling of the Menacing Knight
Range : Touch
Duration : Mom.
Target : Ind.

Throws an individual away from you, with little concern about where the target lands, or how far he goes (up to 15 paces), with little regard to what might be in the way. Torsten made several clubs and maces with this enchantment on them, activated on a solid hit.

(Base : 15, +1 Range)


Covenants just adds a whole bunch of new stuff. I missed the question originally and I'd have voted for Covenants.

Oh, and I don't really know what I need to spend "my points" on until we kind of get into it to be honest. The main thing I think I want to take Corvus through is the Bjornaer initiations... and stuff. I'll have a look at the tasty Bjornaer spells and abilities and work backwards from that I guess.

Here's my 150 levels. Since we're talking utility I'll add some from the Covenants book list.

The Spell of Wrought Metal level ReTe 20 (Covenants page 51, I added a magnitude to have it work on any metal, the original was iron only)

R: T D: M T: G

Transforms raw metal from a furnace into bars of wrought and finished product as if worked in a forge. This requires an Int+Finesse of 9.

The Phantom Blacksmith ReTe 25 (Covenants page 51, I added a magnitude to have it work on any metal, the original was iron only)

R: T D: M T: G

This spell turns transforms metal bars or other ready metal into a crafted item, requiring a Per+Finesse roll of +3 for what a mundane blacksmith would require.

7 League Stride ReCo 30

Conjuring The Mystic Tower (casting tablet Covenants page 90) CrTe 35 (a Tablet costs 2 points per 5 levels, for a total of 70) A Casting Tablet allows the spell to be cast without learning it, since we don't actually need to have someone know this spell as it will rarely be cast, we can just have someone read it when needed.

Binding the Mundane Codex ReAn 5 (Covenants 97)

R: T D: M T: G

Binds up to 1000 bifold pages into a book.