Table Talk - Development

My initial opinion was that Int +6 was a bit high, but it's probably all right; and I'm not convinced by the 11 Goldsmithing. It's huge, and from a gameplay perspective, it doesn't presumably even help Antoine. I don't mind whether you add Educated or drop the educated abilities, but agree that one or other is probably needed.

An owl is in interesting option, but the covenant is a bit replete with birds.

If Lemon doesn't talk like Mojo Jojo, I will be very disappointed.

Mojo jojo: That's perfect and I didn't even think of it. But it would be perfect.

Its not an animal of virtue. He's more like one of the Nephelococcygia

Curse you Perigrine. Now I have Mojo Jojo talk going through my head.

But at least I know Lemon's weakness - Moko Jono!

The rest of us (except for silveroak) were limited to animals of virtue (at least as I understand things).

This post, definitely says possibly. It wouldn't be the first time I've come across something old or not official though.

He actually has the Educated virtue tucked away in his list of virtues from qualities.

Random thought: He does make a mockery of humanity, but in a very different manner. If he's stupid what does that make a normal person? Humanity is definitely the butt of the joke here. Anyway its a moot point since he's not a beast of virtue.

I'll wait 'till Marko can get a comment in before making any changes. Goldsmith can definitely be lowered.

No one was ever restricted to Beasts of Virtue. That is simply what most people chose, and it is a wise decision. But Roberto's Familiar, Cidito, is not a Cat of Virtue by any means. He is just a magical cat.
For the Magic Monkey, again not a beast of Virtue. Someone commented on the ape of virtue. This is not an ape, it is a monkey. Granted that I don't think medevial taxonomy makes a great distinction.
But I myself, I was imagining a super intelligent simian. Like Gorilla Grodd, Mojo Jojo, and the like. More human than human. It is a classic trope and amuses me. I say go for it.

Quick glance.

Problems: Background inconsistencies, + Doesn't mesh well with the setting imo.

Solutions: Either make him dumber, or slow his advancement.

As noted, there's a discrepancy with the fact that he thinks he's smarter than any human, and the fact that he is. Likewise, the text says that the monkeys consider themselves superior to humans, which imply that they aren't. I agree with Silveroak that it is quite not in setting, as humans are suppose to be the pinnacle of creation. I appreciate the idea of a society of intelligent apes, but having them be so much smarter puts into the background the existence of en entire nation of apes that are wisest than the wisest of ancient dragons or any "wise owl of the forest". I don't like this at all.
Coming from Comics, I see the Apes of Gorilla City has having human intelligence and something like ancient greece society, which would make them super-advanced from the medieval mind. Not being to much better than Int 6 is seen as dumb.

=> I would either change that bit of text, or lower the intelligence at least to 4.

I'd lower the Goldsmith score to give him some Area Lore pertaining to his living area

IMO, the combination of Int 6 + Book Learner + Apt Student + Independent Study, combined with the "free advancement for familiars" is quite cheesy. He begins by giving +6 to lab totals, and will be able to increase MT like crazy, first by being taught it by our resident mundane über scholars (Question: Who among them hasn't positive Com + Good Teacher?), then by reading books. Once again, this is in contradiction to the text, which has him as lacking both talent and skill to advance. This again crops up later in the text.
I also have reservations about the vis source. Either it'll go to his master, or it will what? Fuel him even more?

=> Another possibility might be to keep the intelligence score at +6, actually way above that of his peers, but take the combo of Poor Student, Incomprehensible and Judged Unfairly.
This might make his situation ironic, in that he was more intelligent than the other monkeys, but was thought of as dumb, since not only was he slow to learn things, he had trouble to convey his knowledge and was unimpressive. This might also be a better mockery of human society, both with him and with his peers.
This, IMO, is the better solution.

He also seems to have virtues but no flaws, but less than his allotment of qualities. You should check this. IIRC, he lacks an Essential Personnality Trait as a Monkey.

I knew something was bugging me!

You did something that, while totally legit, was, IMO, unfair to the other players: The reduced might / extra abilities thingie.

There was a tradeof in this troupe between Familiar potency and abilities.
Either you had a more powerful familiar, or one with more abilities, but not both.

So, you did a Might 15, spring familiar.
The trade means 5 points of reduced might give you 250 extra xp, compared to the 230 that creating a Summer Might 10 one. IMO, this is bad form, but I can sit on 20 extra xp, especially as MT is the more (the only, one might say) important skill of a familiar anyway.
But it also means that you essentially get 5 extra points of qualities compared to other familiars. That basically went into xp-boosting virtues, thus in MT :stuck_out_tongue:

IMO, you want more XP for your familiar? Fine! But do as everyone did, Might 10, summer, with 3 reduced might.

Hold on to these thoughts. I will take the monkey and rework it and hand it off to the next guy to do the same :smiley:

My turn to trash it.
I was thinking of a highly intelligent monkey from a background of ignorant animal monkeys. So he lives amongst humans. Kind of like Brian on the family guy. All dogs are stupid except him. He is highly intelligent, yet cannot break away from certain dog habits.
And why go all the way to the heart of Africa when there are monkeys at our doorstep? Barbary Apes (macaques),the European monkeys :smiley:
Hands should be a Major Virtue, since No Hands is a Major Flaw.
Goldsmith makes no sense. Experience enhancing virtues are munchkinizing on particulars, the Reduced might is a loophole, the vis source is nixed, and other bits.

I have an idea...

Here is my take...

Lemon Mike Lemon: The Brainy Barbary Ape from Gibraltar
(Barbary Ape, Rock Ape, Macaque berbere ou Magot, Berberaffe, Mono de Berberea)
Characteristics: Int +5, Per +1, Com +2, Pre +1, Str -2, Sta -1, Dex +2, Quik +0
Size: -3
Might: 5+3
Season: Autumn
Confidence: 1 (3)
Virtues & Flaws: +0 Magic Animal (Monkey); +3 Hands; +1 Great Strength, +1 Puissant Athletics; -3 Meddler (Major); -1 Busybody, -1 Proud
Qualities & Inferiorities: +1 Educated, +1 Gift of Speech, +2 Great Intelligence x2, +2 Improved Characteristics x2, +1 Unaffected by the Gift
-3 Major Essential Flaw: Stoopid Monkey, -1 Susceptible to Deprivation
Personality Traits: Monkey +3*, Meddlesome +3, Gregarious +3, Proud +3, Stoopid -6* (Intelligence)
Soak: -1
Fatigue: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, ko
Wounds: -1 Lt (1-2), -3 Med (3-4), -5 Hvy (5-6), Incap (7-8), Dead (9+)

working on it

working on it


I wouldn't object to a simple, low-power magical power, if it fits or can be easily swapped for an equally-unimportant ability or similar. But equally, I'm ok without.

Version III

Lemon Mike Lemon: The Brainy Barbary Ape from Gibraltar
(Barbary Ape, Rock Ape, Macaque berbere ou Magot, Berberaffe, Mono de Berberea)
Characteristics: Int +5, Per +1, Com +2, Pre +1, Str -2, Sta -1, Dex +2, Quik 0
Size: -3
Might: 5+3
Season: Autumn
Confidence: 1 (3)
Virtues & Flaws: Magic Animal (Monkey); Hands; Arcane Lore, Educated, Great Strength, Puissant Athletics, Puissant Brawl, Unaffected by the Gift; Indiscreet, Proud (Major); Busybody, Incomprehensible, Poor Concentration,
Qualities & Inferiorities: Gift of Speech, Great Intelligence x2, Improved Characteristics x2, Improved Powers x2, Personal Powers x2; Major Essential Flaw: Stoopid Monkey; Susceptible to Deprivation
Personality Traits: Monkey +3*, Gregarious +3, Meddlesome +3, Proud +3, Stoopid -6* (Intelligence)
Stoopid: Whenever left to his own devices, no matter how brilliant he may be, he is susceptible to his dumb animal nature.
Monkey Style Boxing: Init 0, Atk +10, Def +8, Dmg -2
Soak: -1
Fatigue: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, ko
Wounds: -1 Lt (1-2), -3 Med (3-4), -5 Hvy (5-6), Incap (7-8), Dead (9+)

Abilities: Monkey Language 5 (Barbary Ape), Gibraltar Lore 3 (mountain); Arabic 5 (Analusian), Artes Liberales 3 (logic), Athletics 3+2 (climb), Awareness 3 (alert), Brawl 5+2 (monkey boxing), Charm 3 (smile), Faerie Lore 3 (faerie animals), Finesse 3 (speed), Latin 5 (literacy), Folk Ken 3 (seamen), Guile 3 (smarmy), Italian 5 (sailors), Magic Lore 3 (regiones), Medicine 3 (pharmacology), Philosophiae 3 (natural), Profession Seaman 1 (mascot), Profession Scribe 1 (composition), Spanish 5 (Castilian)

Powers: 50 levels of Personal Powers, 10 Mastery Points
Leaping Monkey
0 points, Init -3, Animal
R: Per, D: Mom, T: Ind
ReAn35 (base 35)
Personal Power, 35 Levels; Improved Power, 5 points (-4 Cost, Fast Cast)

Filght of the Flying Monkey
0 points, Init +1, Animal
R: Per, D: Constant, T: Ind
ReAn15 (Base 4, +3 Constant)
Personal Power, 15 levels; Improved Power, 5 points (-2 Cost, +2 Init, Precise)

working on it


Well, I'm lost now. I vote for Marko's monkey. :slight_smile:

I picked on your monkey beause you pretty much asked us to rip it to shreds :mrgreen:
But my version is based on your version in several ways.

I like the look of that. He's your standard screaming, climbing, punching, sailors'-mascot monkey, who just happens to be a minor genius when he remembers to be.

Are the powers a constant Flight effect, and an Animal version of Leap of Homecoming? The Flight is presumably based on ReCo base 4, and is thus quite slow ("Move a target slowly in any direction you please").

One little change I'd maybe make - to play up the "ordinary stupid monkey" aspect, he might benefit from a smidgeon of Legerdemain - the Barbary apes on Gibraltar are known for stealing stuff. Perhaps Latin 5->4, freeing up 25xp; spent on Legerdemain 2 and Profession Seaman 1->2? I can't see why he'd pick up fluency in a dead language, while the variety of living ones make perfect sense (and of course he learns Latin automatically when I bind him anyway).

+1 to Asilano, it's a lot better and funnier.

In the same spirit, I'd maybe replace the second power and a level of Improved Powers with Increased defense*2, just because he's so damned hard to lay a hand upon (Monkey Fighting!)

Honestly, though, after reading the first chapter of Blood Rights (Dresden Files), I've always wanted a monkey that throws flaming monkey poo.

I'm tempted to suggest a Kleptomania flaw, but that might be going too far :mrgreen: