Table Talk - Development

No one was ever restricted to Beasts of Virtue. That is simply what most people chose, and it is a wise decision. But Roberto's Familiar, Cidito, is not a Cat of Virtue by any means. He is just a magical cat.
For the Magic Monkey, again not a beast of Virtue. Someone commented on the ape of virtue. This is not an ape, it is a monkey. Granted that I don't think medevial taxonomy makes a great distinction.
But I myself, I was imagining a super intelligent simian. Like Gorilla Grodd, Mojo Jojo, and the like. More human than human. It is a classic trope and amuses me. I say go for it.
:smiley:

Quick glance.

TL, DR:
Problems: Background inconsistencies, + Doesn't mesh well with the setting imo.

Solutions: Either make him dumber, or slow his advancement.


As noted, there's a discrepancy with the fact that he thinks he's smarter than any human, and the fact that he is. Likewise, the text says that the monkeys consider themselves superior to humans, which imply that they aren't. I agree with Silveroak that it is quite not in setting, as humans are suppose to be the pinnacle of creation. I appreciate the idea of a society of intelligent apes, but having them be so much smarter puts into the background the existence of en entire nation of apes that are wisest than the wisest of ancient dragons or any "wise owl of the forest". I don't like this at all.
Coming from Comics, I see the Apes of Gorilla City has having human intelligence and something like ancient greece society, which would make them super-advanced from the medieval mind. Not being to much better than Int 6 is seen as dumb.

=> I would either change that bit of text, or lower the intelligence at least to 4.

I'd lower the Goldsmith score to give him some Area Lore pertaining to his living area

IMO, the combination of Int 6 + Book Learner + Apt Student + Independent Study, combined with the "free advancement for familiars" is quite cheesy. He begins by giving +6 to lab totals, and will be able to increase MT like crazy, first by being taught it by our resident mundane über scholars (Question: Who among them hasn't positive Com + Good Teacher?), then by reading books. Once again, this is in contradiction to the text, which has him as lacking both talent and skill to advance. This again crops up later in the text.
I also have reservations about the vis source. Either it'll go to his master, or it will what? Fuel him even more?

=> Another possibility might be to keep the intelligence score at +6, actually way above that of his peers, but take the combo of Poor Student, Incomprehensible and Judged Unfairly.
This might make his situation ironic, in that he was more intelligent than the other monkeys, but was thought of as dumb, since not only was he slow to learn things, he had trouble to convey his knowledge and was unimpressive. This might also be a better mockery of human society, both with him and with his peers.
This, IMO, is the better solution.

He also seems to have virtues but no flaws, but less than his allotment of qualities. You should check this. IIRC, he lacks an Essential Personnality Trait as a Monkey.

I knew something was bugging me!

You did something that, while totally legit, was, IMO, unfair to the other players: The reduced might / extra abilities thingie.

There was a tradeof in this troupe between Familiar potency and abilities.
Either you had a more powerful familiar, or one with more abilities, but not both.

So, you did a Might 15, spring familiar.
The trade means 5 points of reduced might give you 250 extra xp, compared to the 230 that creating a Summer Might 10 one. IMO, this is bad form, but I can sit on 20 extra xp, especially as MT is the more (the only, one might say) important skill of a familiar anyway.
But it also means that you essentially get 5 extra points of qualities compared to other familiars. That basically went into xp-boosting virtues, thus in MT :stuck_out_tongue:

IMO, you want more XP for your familiar? Fine! But do as everyone did, Might 10, summer, with 3 reduced might.

Hold on to these thoughts. I will take the monkey and rework it and hand it off to the next guy to do the same :smiley:

My turn to trash it.
I was thinking of a highly intelligent monkey from a background of ignorant animal monkeys. So he lives amongst humans. Kind of like Brian on the family guy. All dogs are stupid except him. He is highly intelligent, yet cannot break away from certain dog habits.
And why go all the way to the heart of Africa when there are monkeys at our doorstep? Barbary Apes (macaques),the European monkeys :smiley:
Hands should be a Major Virtue, since No Hands is a Major Flaw.
Goldsmith makes no sense. Experience enhancing virtues are munchkinizing on particulars, the Reduced might is a loophole, the vis source is nixed, and other bits.

I have an idea...

Here is my take...

Lemon Mike Lemon: The Brainy Barbary Ape from Gibraltar
(Barbary Ape, Rock Ape, Macaque berbere ou Magot, Berberaffe, Mono de Berberea)
Characteristics: Int +5, Per +1, Com +2, Pre +1, Str -2, Sta -1, Dex +2, Quik +0
Size: -3
Might: 5+3
Season: Autumn
Confidence: 1 (3)
Virtues & Flaws: +0 Magic Animal (Monkey); +3 Hands; +1 Great Strength, +1 Puissant Athletics; -3 Meddler (Major); -1 Busybody, -1 Proud
Qualities & Inferiorities: +1 Educated, +1 Gift of Speech, +2 Great Intelligence x2, +2 Improved Characteristics x2, +1 Unaffected by the Gift
-3 Major Essential Flaw: Stoopid Monkey, -1 Susceptible to Deprivation
Personality Traits: Monkey +3*, Meddlesome +3, Gregarious +3, Proud +3, Stoopid -6* (Intelligence)
Reputations:
Combat:
Monkey-Boxing:
Soak: -1
Fatigue: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, ko
Wounds: -1 Lt (1-2), -3 Med (3-4), -5 Hvy (5-6), Incap (7-8), Dead (9+)

Abilities:
working on it

Background:
working on it

Appearance:

I wouldn't object to a simple, low-power magical power, if it fits or can be easily swapped for an equally-unimportant ability or similar. But equally, I'm ok without.

Version III

Lemon Mike Lemon: The Brainy Barbary Ape from Gibraltar
(Barbary Ape, Rock Ape, Macaque berbere ou Magot, Berberaffe, Mono de Berberea)
Characteristics: Int +5, Per +1, Com +2, Pre +1, Str -2, Sta -1, Dex +2, Quik 0
Size: -3
Might: 5+3
Season: Autumn
Confidence: 1 (3)
Virtues & Flaws: Magic Animal (Monkey); Hands; Arcane Lore, Educated, Great Strength, Puissant Athletics, Puissant Brawl, Unaffected by the Gift; Indiscreet, Proud (Major); Busybody, Incomprehensible, Poor Concentration,
Qualities & Inferiorities: Gift of Speech, Great Intelligence x2, Improved Characteristics x2, Improved Powers x2, Personal Powers x2; Major Essential Flaw: Stoopid Monkey; Susceptible to Deprivation
Personality Traits: Monkey +3*, Gregarious +3, Meddlesome +3, Proud +3, Stoopid -6* (Intelligence)
Stoopid: Whenever left to his own devices, no matter how brilliant he may be, he is susceptible to his dumb animal nature.
Reputations:
Combat
Monkey Style Boxing: Init 0, Atk +10, Def +8, Dmg -2
Soak: -1
Fatigue: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, ko
Wounds: -1 Lt (1-2), -3 Med (3-4), -5 Hvy (5-6), Incap (7-8), Dead (9+)

Abilities: Monkey Language 5 (Barbary Ape), Gibraltar Lore 3 (mountain); Arabic 5 (Analusian), Artes Liberales 3 (logic), Athletics 3+2 (climb), Awareness 3 (alert), Brawl 5+2 (monkey boxing), Charm 3 (smile), Faerie Lore 3 (faerie animals), Finesse 3 (speed), Latin 5 (literacy), Folk Ken 3 (seamen), Guile 3 (smarmy), Italian 5 (sailors), Magic Lore 3 (regiones), Medicine 3 (pharmacology), Philosophiae 3 (natural), Profession Seaman 1 (mascot), Profession Scribe 1 (composition), Spanish 5 (Castilian)

Powers: 50 levels of Personal Powers, 10 Mastery Points
Leaping Monkey
0 points, Init -3, Animal
R: Per, D: Mom, T: Ind
ReAn35 (base 35)
Personal Power, 35 Levels; Improved Power, 5 points (-4 Cost, Fast Cast)

Filght of the Flying Monkey
0 points, Init +1, Animal
R: Per, D: Constant, T: Ind
ReAn15 (Base 4, +3 Constant)
Personal Power, 15 levels; Improved Power, 5 points (-2 Cost, +2 Init, Precise)

Background:
working on it

Appearance:

Well, I'm lost now. I vote for Marko's monkey. :slight_smile:

I picked on your monkey beause you pretty much asked us to rip it to shreds :mrgreen:
But my version is based on your version in several ways.

I like the look of that. He's your standard screaming, climbing, punching, sailors'-mascot monkey, who just happens to be a minor genius when he remembers to be.

Are the powers a constant Flight effect, and an Animal version of Leap of Homecoming? The Flight is presumably based on ReCo base 4, and is thus quite slow ("Move a target slowly in any direction you please").

One little change I'd maybe make - to play up the "ordinary stupid monkey" aspect, he might benefit from a smidgeon of Legerdemain - the Barbary apes on Gibraltar are known for stealing stuff. Perhaps Latin 5->4, freeing up 25xp; spent on Legerdemain 2 and Profession Seaman 1->2? I can't see why he'd pick up fluency in a dead language, while the variety of living ones make perfect sense (and of course he learns Latin automatically when I bind him anyway).

+1 to Asilano, it's a lot better and funnier.

In the same spirit, I'd maybe replace the second power and a level of Improved Powers with Increased defense*2, just because he's so damned hard to lay a hand upon (Monkey Fighting!)

Honestly, though, after reading the first chapter of Blood Rights (Dresden Files), I've always wanted a monkey that throws flaming monkey poo.

I'm tempted to suggest a Kleptomania flaw, but that might be going too far :mrgreen:

The second power was really an afterthought to fill out the rest of the levels granted by Minor Powers. But now I look closer and see I waste 5 Mastery points on it, which is worth a Minor Quality. I shall refine it a bit and play up the thieving & mischievous aspect.

This guy and Cidito are going to make fast friends or bitter rivals. Or both...

Lemon Mike Lemon: The Brainy Barbary Ape from Gibraltar
(Barbary Ape, Rock Ape, Macaque berbere ou Magot, Berberaffe, Mono de Berberea)
Characteristics: Int +5, Per +1, Com +2, Pre +1, Str -2, Sta -1, Dex +2, Quik 0
Size: -3
Might: 5+3
Season: Autumn
Confidence: 1 (3)
Virtues & Flaws: Magic Animal (Monkey); Hands; Arcane Lore, Educated, Great Strength, Puissant Athletics, Puissant Brawl, Tough, Unaffected by the Gift; Indiscreet, Proud (Major); Busybody, Delusion (thinks he is people), Incomprehensible, Poor Concentration
Qualities & Inferiorities: Gift of Speech, Great Intelligence x2, Improved Characteristics x2, Improved Defense, Improved Powers, Personal Power x2; Major Essential Flaw: Stoopid Monkey; Susceptible to Deprivation
Personality Traits: Monkey +3*, Gregarious +3, Meddlesome +3, Proud +3, Mischievous +1, Stoopid -6* (Intelligence)
Stoopid: Whenever left to his own devices, no matter how brilliant he may be, he is susceptible to his dumb animal nature.
Reputations: Tough Old Monkey 2 (local sailors), The Smart Guy 1 (local sailors)
Combat
Monkey Style Boxing: Init 0, Atk +10, Def +10, Dmg -2

Soak: +2
Fatigue: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, ko
Wounds: -1 Lt (1-2), -3 Med (3-4), -5 Hvy (5-6), Incap (7-8), Dead (9+)

Abilities: Monkey Language 5 (Barbary Ape), Gibraltar Lore 2 (mountain); Atlantic Lore 1 (Aftican coast), Arabic 4 (Andalusian), Artes Liberales 2 (logic), Athletics 3+2 (climb), Awareness 2 (alert), Brawl 5+2 (monkey boxing), Carouse 3 (power Drinking), Charm 3 (smile), Chirurgy 1 (set bones), Divine Lore 1 (saints), Faerie Lore 1 (faerie animals), Finesse 3 (leaping), Latin 4 (literacy), Folk Ken 3 (seamen), Guile 3 (smarmy), Iberian Lore 1 (Atlantic coast), Italian 4 (sailors), Infernal Lore 1 (the Sea Devil), Legerdemain 3 (steal), Magic Lore 1 (regiones), Medicine 1 (pharmacology), Mediterranean Lore 1 (trade routes), Philosophiae 1 (natural), Portuguese 4 (sailors), Profession Merchant 3 (shipping), Profession Seaman 4 (mascot), Profession Scribe 1 (composition), Stealth 3 (small hiding spaces), Spanish 4 (Castilian)
Alphabets: Arabic & Latin
Powers:
Leaping Monkey: Personal Power (50 levels, 15 converted to Mastery); 8 Mastery Points
1 point, Init 0, Animal
R: Per, D: Mom, T: Ind
ReAn35 (base 35)
Personal Power, 35 Levels; Improved Power, 8 points (-4 Cost, +3 Init, Fast Cast)

Background: Lemon Mike Lemon is a salty old sailor, wise in the ways of the life and experienced with international crews. His has always been a special position, for he is the literate one amongst the crew more often than not. He is often handy as a translator, and scribe, and is the source of many interesting discussions. Yet he is as a thieving a cut-throat as any of them, and is fierce in a drunken brawl.
[tab][/tab]Mikes official rank of employment on any ship is usually as Mascot, his other services always as part of a side deal. Lemon Mike, as it happens, is actually a monkey. Born a Barbary Ape on Gibraltar, his mother was the pet of a sea merchant named something stupid. His mother died while he was still an infant, so he was raised by humans and taught to dress and act as one. He thinks of himself as a “people”, not human but a regular person nonetheless. Yet he is a monkey, and at certain odd critical times his true animal nature is glaringly obvious though he cannot recognize it. The merchant, amazed, played it sangfroid and responded in kind. He taught Mike how to read and write, and put him to work.
[tab][/tab]Which was fortunate, because after the guy died Mike was able to find jobs easily. Being a talking monkey has its challenges, but the fact that he is at once both clever and talented, plus also humorously ignorant of his stupidity, are endearing qualities to drunkards and sailors.
[tab][/tab]Mike can sometimes be mistaken for a short hairy guy, especially when dressed in heavy clothing. You talk to him, wondering, and try to avoid the subject because you figure it would be rude and the guy could just be odd looking and he is charming and smart and you decide to hire him. Then he swings on the rope and climbs out the window. So he's a monkey. At least he can read the freighting list.

Appearance:

Yup! I'm glad I helped.

:laughing: Yeah, that was fun

Just wanted to say, this is a wonderful essential flaw.

What does Leaping Monkey do? Is this a LoH Teleport effect? If so, although useful, this doesn't mesh well in my opinion. I think that either a gift of the frog's leg, or a supernatural agility power (Like the Vampires in AtD) might be more suited to it. Or an enlarging power maybe (King Kong time!)?

The leaping power was inspired by the url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong]Monkey King[/url]. Among his various powers, "He is also extremely fast, able to travel 108,000 li (54,000 kilometres (34,000 mi)) in one somersault".

Which happens to be about 9,100 miles more then the circumference of the earth.