Table Talk - Development

Item's MR when it comes to whether (and when) it can physically touch or be touched by someone with MR is rather a YSMV type situation. It could be that if the lowest Penetration installed in the item penetrates the person's MR, then it could hit him.

As far as the individual effects being able to affect their target, each individual effect's Penetration value is what would determine that, and that is determined at the time of enchantment.

If Vagravien has an apprentice, Fleur could use them for a while, probably provide them some training in magic theory and then hand them off to someone else, who would not necessarily have to be someone who can open the arts at this time... depending on how well advanced the apprentice is. In fact Fleur will probably want to go through the members of Bellaquin and figure out whether it would be a good idea politically or tactically to start poaching apprentices, and if so from whom.

Don't they have to have their Arts open to even be officially considered an apprentice? My understanding was that until their Arts are open, they're not officially your apprentice and can technically be stolen by anyone.

I think Silveroak's point is that Fleur could "steal" an apprentice who has already had their arts open (ie. is officially an apprentice), do a couple of years of training and then "hand them off" to another magus (who perhaps doesn't have the requisite Arts necessary to open the arts) to complete their apprenticeship. Thus alleviating the need to get all of your arts up to 5.

While Fleur can absolutely "steal someone's apprentice", I'm not sure that then "gifting them" to another, non-Bonisagus, magus really fits within the spirit of the Bonisagus exception.

No, but what tribunal will they raise their objection in? That would require things be taken to the grand tribunal, which gives us a hearing to get our foot in the door about establishing our own tribunal, especially when they are claiming to be part of the Provencal tribunal while renting space inside what is according to founding documents our covenant space. Certainly Fleur can offer some form of contrition after that 'small issue' has been resolved.
And with their ageis down and them being apparently out of vis they are sort of on the ropes... we'll probably have to take our rent in books.
We could even further complicate the issue by giving some of the apprentices to members of the Barcelona Covenant... perhaps with the implicit understanding that we are garnering support for making Andorra its own tribunal.

I think that stealing and then gifting an apprentice is a bad idea politically speaking barring special circumstances. Stealing an apprentice and gifting her to the mother or stealing a apprentice descending from Mercere or stealing an apprentice likely to be killed etc. would probably be justifiable. Random asshattery would be frowned upon.

That's all assuming anyone there even has an apprentice. We might not want to get ahead of ourselves here.

I think flat-out giving an apprentice away ("Hey, happy birthday! Hurry up, open it!" rip shred "Aww...it's an apprentice! You shouldn't have!") may be at best a grey area, and may be quite frowned upon. Selling them, however, even at a ridiculously low price (or even "services rendered") is acceptable. As best as I can recall.

Oh I'm sure its all perfectly legal. Politically OTOH... not good if we want votes.

That's why Fleur would have to take all the flack, not the covenant. "Oops, sorry, I guess I'm just a bit prone to doing inappropriate things. Really, just ask anyone. How can I make this up?"

The problem is that Fleur may not be the one to decide who will take the flack. If the 'wronged party' decides to blame the covenant, there's not much we can do to change their mind.

The question my not be who they decide to blame but what happens as a result. Are they going to declare wizard war on the whole covenant? Try to blame us all before the grand Tribunal? If they bring it up in provencal they face the fact we are not part of provencal, and ultimately the wronged party may define who they blame but that alone does not define who will take the flack.
Also why she is discussing this with Carmen to get her advice and not the whole covenant...

It's certainly a very nuanced situation with numerous pitfalls. But Fleur is wise to raise it with Carmen first rather than the whole covenant. Otherwise she'll get far more advice than she wants on the subject. :wink:

No current member of Bellaquin has a current apprentice. Two people who were there do. Pinky has an apprentice. He is a member of Doisettep. And...
...
Guiverna knows that Vulcanus has taken an apprentice, holed up in his secret forge.

Carmen would frown on the idea of using the Bonisagus perrogative to play political games. It is a serious duty and responsability to be utilized for the specific purpose of magical advancement.

I'll put my XP into Order of Hermes Lore - I think there was enough political chicanery to justify that - and (If Frederika is allowed to) I'd like to study Andorra's copy of the Historia Hermetica for the season. While this whole shebang has probably left her feeling woefully under-protected (Parma-wise especially), ultimately the dinner was a cluster of conflicting interests mired in political uncertainty.

Frederika is probably figuring that if she doesn't get a handle on everything now, then not only will that present a danger all on its own - she'll risk being locked out of Andorra's politics. But if she does get in quickly, while she's still new, that may open some doors.

I've a mind, after a season of study, to write a commentary on the book comparing the Order's de jure organisation with Andorra's unique situation. With luck, that'll both be A) useful, and B) demonstrate Frederika's writing skills (which will hopefully lead to her being allowed to write a lot more instead of being 'asked' to do other things).

Hey, do we have a teacher that can teach Teaching? And if so, what would be their source quality assuming one-on-one teaching or a group if there are more that might be interested. Solomon needs at least some skill in teaching before getting an apprentice.

I'm sure someone else could manage better. But Bashir can teach Teaching with a SQ of 20 for an individual, 17 if teaching two, and 14 if teaching up to 20 students. He can teach up to level 4.

I don't suppose anyone knows where Vulcans secret forge is? Rescuing an apprentice from Vulcanus sounds like a noble cause. Does anyone even have a vague idea of where that might be, enough that someone could be assigned to locate it?

I'm considering making a redcap spymaster companion- would it be possible to have both the virtue redcap (major, status) and urser (minor flaw, status)? I would think these two would not be a problem, especially as Urser is listed under the Mercere section in true lineages, but nothing specifically indicates the two can be taken together.