Table Talk - Development

Pretty much my thoughts there too. Oh I was aware of the risk, but it would seem the point is moot.

The other concept isn't nearly as... martial? Also, the only way he's giving up his Talisman is if he's dead (and depending on the circumstances, maybe not even then). I'll explain more as I finish fleshing him out.

Also, remember, there's nothing saying that your character concept has to be fully realized right out of the gate. I know that Lucas has plenty of room for development in his character concept. He's not where I'd like him to ultimately be, but that's okay. Part of the story is getting him there. You could easily start out with a higher MT and have a goal to get it high enough to enchant a sword.

Just saying ...

+1
I often have 5, 10 and 20 year plans for my magi. Andorra is good for these plans, because it has reasonably rapid advancement for a play by post saga (all of these advance notoriously slowly).

Oh I'm completely alright with planning and taking a long term approach to a character, but when the core of his concept is 'I hit things with my stick and cast magic at them through said stick' and you can't make the stick (again, completely my oversight)... well then you've got a bit of a problem there.

Well, making it a stick (staff) is quite a bit easier, although you would still need increases in magic theory. Keep in mind that Magic theory also limits the number of components you can have in a compound item.

Indeed it does! But given that the concept is a Magus masquerading as a mundane knight, it really needs to be a sword. Given that it's so crucial to the character concept, I just can't see playing him without it. Like I said, entirely an oversight on my end.

I really don't mind changing the character a bit. As Marko told me when I first came to the game, it's not the character sheet that's important, it's who he is. So like I said, I'm thinking I'll just make him one of House Tremere's Necromancers and a member of the Abyssal Bearer Vexillation. Shouldn't really change how the character enters the saga.

I wouldn't necessarily call it generous. The way it reads to me, you can enchant part of an item (getting only the material bonus of the part you enchant, but the shape bonus of the whole item); or you can prepare a compound item which potentially gets access to all the shape and material bonuses of its components.

Yes, though, I have no reason to believe a talisman would be except from any particular limitations. If you open only one part of an item - instead of preparing it as a compound item - then you're locked into just the material bonuses of what you do open. Which is potentially a pain in the rear end for something as versatile as a talisman.

I also agree that the example is bad. As you point out, a gem-topped staff wouldn't lose anything for being prepared as a compound item (the example would be better if it were topped by, say, a glass orb).

Still, I think it's clear that we're being given three ways to open an item for enchantment: just the full item (e.g. a single gemstone, paragraph two), part of an item (just the gem on the staff, paragraph 3), or as a compound item (the gem, the staff, and its iron shodding - paragraph four). With benefits and costs to each. If that wasn't the case, then the entire third paragraph under Preparation for Enchantment would be redundant: you'd only need the compound item rules.

I was saying it was generous, because while you can open a part of an item, you can't expect all of the material bonuses to follow through were it later attuned as a talisman. I read what you initially wrote as suggesting just that, because you didn't include any possible limitations should Nithyn decide to go that way. You want your talisman to have as many useful shape and material bonuses as you can get that are complementary to your character's strengths. You want to include as many components as you reasonably can, based on what you think your magic theory score is going to be at for some time. I start thinking about a talisman for my characters when Magic Theory is around 5. A score of 5 will open most reasonable sized items, will have at least 5 components (6 if specialty is enchanting items), and it allows the addition of a goodly amount of vis into an item in a season.

I agree completely that there are multiple ways to open an item: partial, and two compound methods.

Ah! No worries then - just a miscommunication. And yeah, definitely want as many bits and pieces as you can fit. Brushing up on my Magic Theory before thinking too hard about it is sounding like a good idea. I just have so much I want to actually do!

Time to check out a copy of the Corpus Hermeticum...

But at least Andorra moves at a relatively brisk pace. Even if I want it all now. :laughing:

If you're gonna take the time to stab something, you really should be exploiting the arcane connection and penetration bonus from the blood you now have. Stabbing something is a great tactic, but stabbing to unleash an enchantment is questionable.

Also there is always the fancy great talisman mystery. Let's you build the whole thing up slowly.

Well the idea was to stab something, use said blood and significant mastery/penetration totals to blast it right after aforementioned stabbing. The Talisman was mainly there to act as an extension of him, IE 'I'm now touching you, because my sword (talisman) is'.

Question folks! The Tremere and Tytalus share a Necromantic Lineage from Guorna, so in theory there's probably a Mystery Cult floating out there in the two houses. The question becomes, a Magus starting as a member of said cult, with the flaw "Cabal Legacy - Tremere/Tytalus Necromancers", could they start with a Magical Focus in something besides Certamen? The idea being that instead of getting the usual Tremere focus, they got something more in line with what they were doing. Or would that be something that I'd have to initiate post Gauntlet?

Different troupes play the Tremere focus differently (it's easily the most restrictive house virtue by a long shot), so I wanted to get the general consensus before starting work.

Guorna the Fetid probably didn't teach very much of her knowledge of necromancy to her pupils, because she planned to take over one of their bodies. Tytalus effectively founded the Titanoi Mystery Cult. Tremre, on the hand, being younger, probably didn't know nearly as many of the secrets of necromancy, nor was he involved in any of the Titanoi activities because he was recruiting Dacian necromancers. With her dying breath she cursed Tytalus with Leprosy.

Tremere don't really believe in Mysteries, so the necromancer possibilities in the House are pretty wide and well known.

The idea behind the restrictive nature of the focus, is that the House provides a lot of support to magi. This might be redundant in Andorra, or it might not.

Meaning don't forget that Penetration skill is a must go, probably before the arts, since each point invested in it not only translates into all TeFo combinations, but would also get multiplied by the bonuses.

Yup! Given that the character was designed around Certamen too, it was an essential skill. However, moot point and all that now!

Well then I suppose we'd better wait and let Marko weigh in on this huh? None of us can really say what the entirely NPC based House will or won't do.

It's not a big deal either way, the character can always self initiate as it were, trading Certamen for Ghosts later, but I wanted to see if I could avoid that before working on his write up.

Yeah, I am speaking strictly from canon on this. Having a shared mystery for Tytalus and Tremere would be odd, though.

I was thinking about something along the lines of making him a Disciple of the Worm. It's not a Tremere or Tytalus only Cult, but I image that there might be a few among their ranks.

Isn't real Leprosy an affliction from God in Mythic Europe? And the Hermetic version a comparatively easy to fix version? How exactly did Ms. Fetid pull that off?

She had actual leprosy. And someone catches it if Godd wills (Art and Academe, page 49). Hermetic Leprosy, also detailed on the same page in Art and Academe. So if Tytalus had leprosy, then God willed it. :smiley:

But it's important to note that Tytalus magi with true leprosy have access to the Leper Magus Major Hermetic virtue, which is pretty cool. Most of my characters are more social, and so I've never taken a Leper Magus character .

I concurr with points made about a Talisman. The MT req is the main reason Roberto does not have one (that and his strong preference for spells).
A bone handle works fine for a sword. Go with it.
For Necromancy, I suggest Potent Magic. A straight up +6 and the opportunity to invent potent spells.
If you desire a powerul necromancer mystagogue, I suggest Abaddon of Tytalus at Val-Negra. Andorra has a record on how to find the place and what is there. It is buried in the books somewhere (presuming it survived the fire of 1230).

Already had Potent Magic - Ghosts, with the goal of one day of upgrading it to Necromancy. Great minds? So it's very good to know about the Mystagogue!

I've posted a Necromancer version of my Tremere at Gauntlet, feel free to give him a look.