Table Talk - Development

I am now imagining a ReHe spell with a~...ring duration. That manipulates a tree to grow into a ship.

Hah! It would be one heck of a Cr(Re)He spell and you'd need quite a bit more than a tree, but I love it!

At some point in late 1236, Lucas will corner Arachne to ask her advice on spells she'd like to see him have that are Tethered, Harnessed, and/or Boosted. He's going to try and squeeze a few more seasons out of his Sa Dragonera lab, which is optimized for learning spells, and he'd like to know what she thinks the covenant needs in the way of Tethered/Harnessed/Boosted spells.

Possibilities I can think of:

  • Veil of Invisibility
  • Silence of the Smothered Sound
  • Image Phantom
  • Phantasm of the Human Form
  • Disguise of the New Visage
  • Preternatural Growth and Shrinking
  • Cloak of Black Feathers (Touch version)
  • Wizard's Sidestep (Touch version)
  • Edge of the Razor

I'm sure there are others. But that's what I can think of off the top of my head.

Having a hard time picking virtues for a character that will be along time away from starting Magus :slight_smile: . I'm still reading the Apprentice book to determine how a beginning Apprentice is created, and how that character is supposed to transition into a starting Magus. At present it appears the character is designed before apprenticeship (age 7-14), and then the desired Magus virtues and flaws are kept as aspirational goals, with no guarantee once play starts. That also seems like the right way to play it too, allowing that the character might greatly change in play.

I also opened a thread in the general forum to discuss if "Minor Magical Focus: Teleportation" would be valid; and will need buy-in from this troupe too. Responses vary (as expected); with a few folk stretching the limits of plausible, and others saying no issue.

Failing that I'm also thinking of a MMF: Stone or Damage, as I think either could do some wonderful things.

For a shipwright at Andorra/Sa Dragonera, material expenses are indeed trivial. The cvenant is incrediby weathy and there are trees everywhere. Andrra has a sparse ppuation and vast tracts f uninhabited wilderness. No one will notice or care if you grab an acre of woods and mow it down.
And you can craft small enchanted items that affect a whole ship and do cool stuff.

Unless there are faeries in that forest...

Yes.
This comes up from time to time, I know it by heart now :laughing:
This was explained in at least Legends of Hermes.

In short: If there's a ghost actively haunting a place or person, and you've got an AC to it, you can use a "regular" formulaic summoning spell (Not IoSD, then).
I believe Spooky would qualify, for exemple, at least part of the time.
But if there's no active ghost, like with the majority of deaths, you need something with more oomph (IoSD). IIRC, once you've used it, you can use formulaic summoning spells on that ghost.

I'd say the second case could be seen with Hermetic Theorician being divided as to whether this snatches the spirit from whoever it was, wakes a slumbering ghost unable to "hear" lesser summons, or just uses the vis to create a spirit based on the dead.
So, if, say, you know bob's ghost is haunting the covenant, you can use a formulaic spell to summon him and asking who killed him. But if Bob has no ghost, you need IoSD.

I am glad you take interest into our mutual safety. Neglecting it is the way of defeat.
Now, as you very well know, it was told to me that such spells can only be cast by magi from your line (with the virtue :-/)
So, while useful to the covenant as you can cast them on our grogs, they're definitely less useful that magic items, which may endure centuries after our passing. (You can do tethered... items)

Now, all your ideas are all useful, but I'll try to concentrate on your special powers. Let me see...
I wouldn't waste your skills on a Cloak of Black Feathers. Due to the focus used, there's little difference between what you could do and what a magi lacking your abilities could. Mind you, this is nonetheless a great effect, and you'll have my full support if you want to donate such a cloak to Andorra.

So, if we're going for Sun or more duration spells that can be ended or controlled by the recipient without him needing either you or your item. I'd leave out "Phantasm of the Human Form", just because grogs won't be skilled enough in Finesse to shape the illusion convincingly.
I'd also leave out Edge of the Razor. It may be useful to drop the spell when facing Magical Resistance, but our grogs can just as well carry mundane weapons. I ain't much worried about threats lacking Magical Resistance.
I'll also leave out Disguise of the New Visage. It's a great spell, but too often relies on personnal knowledge of the one yu're impersonnificating.
Preternatural Growth and Shrinking may be great, if we can get our smith to fashion giant swords and you can also enlarge armor. Who cares if they're resisted, so long as their sword isn't.

This leaves us with

  • Veil of Invisibility
  • Silence of the Smothered Sound
  • Preternatural Growth and Shrinking, maybe
  • Cloak of Black Feathers (Touch version). I'm keeping this, just because it's so damn useful.
  • Wizard's Sidestep (Touch version)

What do you think of it?

Skimmed through the thread.

I'm of the exact same opinion than Marko there. Copy, paste.

Yes! :smiley:

My understanding is that the cloak requirement is only used so that the spell can be dropped whenever the target wishes by symbolically taking off the cloak. That's not a problem with Lucas. He can make a similar spell that is Tethered and Harnessed that has no requirement for a cloak.

Shape of the Hawk (because hawks are more Lucas's thing)
ReCo 35
R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind [Boosted, Harnessed, Tethered]
Req: Animal
This spell allows the target to transform into a hawk.
(Base 20, +1 Touch, +2 Sun)

Now, normally, anyone using this spell would be stuck as a hawk until sundown or sunrise. But because it's Harnessed and Tethered, the targets of this spell could end it when they wanted.

Furthermore, since it's Boosted as well, at the cost of just 2 Corpus vis, it could be cast with a Group target, allowing an entire group of grogs to be targeted at once. (Same goes for Veil of Invisibility). And all it takes is a little study of Te on Lucas's part to allow them to take their swords and armor.

Can you imagine sending a troop of grogs as a flock of invisible hawks to outflank the enemy? Sounds good to me!

Unfortunately, making that into a device would be tough. I'm already at two seasons to learn the spell. A truly useful device would be ReCo 45 for unlimited uses, and that would make the required LT too high.

Donna loves this idea!

You could probably get away with as low as six uses a day. Having the item is much more useful than not. And if we're conducting more than six infiltration/flanking/retreat actions in a day, I think we might need to rethink our approach to whatever problem is harrying us, no?

Unfortunately, by going for an item, I lose some of the benefit of my lab, which is optimized for learning spells. That lowers the LT by 6, which makes a real difference. I can only get to 49, which is low for a level 40 device.

I can, however, easily make a device for Preternatural Growth and Shrinking, if that would be of use.

Wand of the Giant Soldier or the Tiny Spy
MuCo(An,He,Te) 25
R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind [Boosted, Harnessed, Tethered]
Adds +1 to the target’s normal Size or decreases it by up to 2 points.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +1 because the spell allows growth or two kinds of shrinking, +10 Unlimited uses)

It seems to me (as someone with no characters in this conversation) that a spell which only does growth but to a greater effect would be more useful, especially if Donna is making oversized swords. Giants are traditionally size +4...which would be a level 25 effect...

How about:

[size=120]Wand of the Giant Soldier[/size]
MuCo(An,He,Te) 30
R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind [Boosted, Harnessed, Tethered]
Adds +3 to the target’s normal Size.
(Base 5, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +10 Unlimited uses)

I can't quite get to Giant size. But +3 is pretty close.

There's a certain Tremere Rego Craft Magic Specialist who can easily make these for you! Heck, as it stands he can make them up to +3 Quality (assuming of course that you use Finesse in place of a Craft Skill for Excellent Quality Items). That goes for armor as well.

True dat. Never underestiate our ability to make a story out of anything.
Or our tendancy to neglect things until the last minute (or beyond).
:mrgreen:

You are getting too far ahead of yourself and perhaps are being a bit ambitious. Focus on who the person is as an individual. Don't worry about complimentary team work yet. Don't make plans with people you have not yet met with. And don't try to do everything at once. Don't be overly proud of what the character can do. Rather, take pride moreso in how they act and conduct themselves in play.

The size change and transformation effects are Muto rather than Rego. Rego was mentioned earlier and using Muto might alter the lab totals.

I was talking MuCo to change a grog's size.

I think Nithyn was talking ReTe to craft a giant sword.

What advantages do you get from being large, by the way? From what I can find, it's harder to severely injure you and it can be a bit more awkward to target you with - say - corpus spells (because they, by default, only target up to size +1). Am I missing anything?

I believe that you get some bonus to Str and Sta with increased Size as well.

There's also the fear factor of facing an enemy that's bigger than a bear.