Table Talk - Development

See, that's what I assumed a size increase would do for you! Or let you use bigger weapons; something like that. But I can't seem to find any rules that cover gaining a str/sta boost when you get larger, or anything else. The closest I found was the Giant Blood virtue - which does give you a characteristic boost alongside the size increase - but unless I can't seem to find anything else :confused:

As memory serves you gain Str but lose Quick the bigger you get. I think I saw it in RoP:M when I was designing my familiar.

By RAW, a magical creature gains 2 str and loses 1 quick and one might for each level of size they gain, and conversely gains one might and quickness and loses 2 str for each negative size.
I know when I was making Felicia however I was instructed not to take the might boost for small size.

I'm pretty sure the +2 Str/-1 Qik stands for mundane animals, too. And people. (Giants take the Gigantic quality (per Realms of Power: Magic, p. 84), which has the same effects on Str and Qik according to the size changes (ibid. p. 37)

You're totally right.
What she meant is that, since there's already a way for a "normal" magus to easily have the spell drop whenever the target wants it, there's no need of mutantes magic on it.

That is nice, very nice indeed, although it's more an "attack" thing than defense.

If you feel like it, learn it. As I told you, this is a great spell anyway. You can always craft a device later, when your arts have progressed, using your knowledge of the spell to help you in your enchantment.

A perfectly fine spell :smiley:
I suggest you add +6 Str and -3 Qik to the mix.

If you're inventing rather than learning the Cloak of Black feathers you can easily change the physical object which cancels the spell too. No need to be a cape; for Hawks perhaps a leather band on your wrist signifying those worn on trained Hawks feet?

True. But why put any limitation on the spell when you don't have to? Even if the item were simple, as IBT suggests, it's still an item that you must have and that might not be there when you need it. With H&T there's no need for any item.

The other alternative is to have a spell that just plain lets the grogs fly. Would that be more useful? It's not as subtle, but it might allow them more freedom of action.

So Arachne would be interested in having the item for the covenant?

[size=120]Wand of the Giant Soldier[/size]
MuCo(An,He,Te) 30
R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind [Boosted, Harnessed, Tethered]
Adds +3 to the target’s normal Size, +6 to the target's Str, and -3 to the target's Qik.
(Base 5, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +10 Unlimited uses)

He has to be inventing it since Cloak of the Black Feathers is only Personal in range and he wants Touch.

So here's what I have for spells Lucas is looking to invent:

  • Veil of Invisibility (PeIm 20) [B, H, & T]
  • Silence of the Smothered Sound (PeIm 20) [B, H, & T]
  • Grog's Sidestep (ReIm 20) [B, H, & T]
  • Either Form of the Hawk (MuCo(An) 35) [B, H, & T] or Wings of Daedalus (ReCo 30) [B, H, & T]

Lucas will also be crafting a Wand of the Giant Soldier [B, H, & T] (assuming Arachne wants it).

The only things to decide are:
(1) Form of the Hawk or Wings of Daedalus?
(2) If Form of Hawk, is a hawk what would be best? I could pick raven, eagle, starling, woodpecker, or any bird you like.

Wen would be your friend forever if you gave her one of those!

While we're on the subject of spell mastery, would anyone be willing to teach Lucas some Mercurian spell masteries in exchange for Boosted Spell, Harnessed Spell, or Tethered Spell?

I'm leaning toward the spell that lets you fly. And given his Art scores, etc., he could learn it with a Duration of Moon. :slight_smile:

Roberto. He would totally be down with learning the Boosted Casting Mastery for his spells. Mercurian Masteries he has include Stalward, Flex, Lab Mastery, and some others.

Boosted is great. Lucas would love Stalwart. And Flex is pretty cool too, though more situational.

Okay, as promised, here is my vision on what the vis sources and stocks of the covenant are. This is all mutable, and mainly fluff. I am posting it here since it is a developmental topic, discussing what we want the numbers for our covenant to be.


[size=125]Vis[/size]
Vis Sources
[tab][/tab]The Covenant of Andorra has several separate sources of vis income. In most cases they own the source outright, or the rights to it. In some cases the source is shared and they are paid dividends. Since the covenant has an even exchange rate through the Mercere Quarter, a large portion is traded so that the covenant has a resulting annual income of at least a Rook in every Art. A few key Arts are kept at higher levels, as determined by the Treasurer.
[tab][/tab]Having an income of a Queen of Vis is legendary, placing Andorra in the top ten alongside legendary covenants such as Durenmar, Coeris, and Doisettep. Andorra does have a large population though, a dozen resident magi and others ranging afar. They also have expenses such as Grants, Salary, Wages, Stipends, Pension, Ritual, and so forth.
Total Vis Income: 200 pawns (66pvt, 134pvf)
Breakdown of Individual Arts
Creo 36, Intellego 6, Muto 7, Perdo 8, Rego 9
Auram 12, Corpus 3, Herbam 3
Ignem 22, Imaginem 3, Mentem 3, Terram 12, Vim 76
After Trade (Exchanging Creo & Vim to even out somewhat)
Creo 16, Intellego 11, Muto 12, Perdo 13, Rego 14
Animal 10, Aquam 10, Auram 12, Corpus 10, Herbam 10
Ignem 22, Imaginem 10, Mentem 10, Terram 12, Vim 28
Total Vis Expenses: Minimum 34, Maximum 76
Annual Aegis (from tablet): 4 Rego, 6 Vim
Grants: 12 various (three pawns times three resident Masters and a Pontifex)
Salary/Stipend: 12 various (three pawns times four officers)
Wages up to 42 various (three pawns times twelve potential wage earner seasons)
Annual Accumulation:
[tab][/tab]With the exchange rate, the minimum is paid by reducing the accumulation of every Art to a Rook, two Rooks for Ignem and Vim. Wages and Gifts are paid out of the Stocks.

And just for fun…

Specifics on Individual Sources
[tab][/tab]Every Source has four traits: Yield, Access, Security, and Rights.
[tab][/tab]Yield simply means the amount of what Art of vis is gained from the source (as an annual average).
[tab][/tab]Access indicates how easy or difficult it is to gather the vis. Easy means a simple hand-waved chore or direct deposit. Moderate requires some travel and/or effort. Difficult means that it is a challenge to get to and/or tap the source, not so much as to inhibit the gain but enough that logistics need explanation and/or the source is tapped only on occasion.
[tab][/tab]Security indicates how safe the source is from attack or interference. Low means the source is out in the open somewhere and/or managed by someone else. Medium means the area is guarded and/or difficult to access without proper knowledge and/or preparation. High means the source is secure somewhere within the covenant and/or closely guarded.
[tab][/tab]Rights indicates what rights the covenant has to the source and/or why they are due. The reasons I can think of off the top of my head, which would apply here, are: Owned outright, Payment for services, Dividends from a share, and traditional Gifts or Tributes.

Sa Dragonera Stone
Yield: 60 Vim
Access: Easy
Security: High
Rights: Payment
[tab][/tab]The Sa Dragonera Stone is the covenant’s largest single source of vis, yet they do not own it. It was discovered by a magus from Barcelona, and is registered by that covenant. However, they did not have the ability to secure and manage harvesting it, they struck a complicated deal with Andorra. All of this is discussed in detail elsewhere.
[tab][/tab]Suffice to say, sixty pawns of Vim is paid to Andorra for supporting and managing a Chapterhouse in the Balearic Islands networking around the stone as their center. They safeguard the stone and are responsible for maintaining the maximum potential yield. This is simply done by having someone tap it every fortnight. The stone produces a pawn of Vim every three-and-a-half days, which is two pawns per week, which is eight per lunar cycle, totaling a queen and four pawns a year. However, the stone “fills” when it reaches eight pawns, so it must be harvested regularly so that it keeps producing. There is a little ReVi Lesser Item handy and somesuchblahblahblah.
[tab][/tab][spoiler]If I had any secret information about the stone currently devised, I would have written it here. I have nothing in mind at the moment, but that could change at any random instant or another player could insert their own story hook here and surprise even me.[/spoiler]

Antonio’s Awesome Orange Tree
Yield: 36 Creo
Access: Easy
Security: High
Rights: Gift
[tab][/tab]Located in the roof top Garden of Delight, Antonio’s Awesome Orange Tree belongs to Antonio and in turn the Pontifici, but the larger portion of the yield is given over to the covenant. The tree is small, producing six to eight fruits per year. These oranges are magical and contain Creo vis, six to eight pawns each (in the seeds). Five fruits are given over to the covenant, the rest kept in private coffers. As treasurer and Pontifex, Carmen has it noted in as a regular 36, the minimum yield.
[tab][/tab][spoiler]These magical seeds have an alternative use, for if one is properly planted a new (mundane) orange tree will spring up overnight blossoming with fruit.[/spoiler]

The Eternal Flame
Yields: 16 Ignem, 16 Vim
Access: Easy
Security: High
Rights: Owned
[tab][/tab]The Eternal Flame of Andorra is a potent mystic asset dating back since the covenant was established. It was already burning in its enclosure, and was part of the ruined temple that the castle was built on top of. Ignem is obtained from the sooty resin that collects on the stony walls. This is collected during annual cleanings. Vim seems to absorb into the very walls. Though tapped when needed, it is usually just tapped and left in the walls, which have a seemingly endless capacity (this has never been pushed to a test beyond a Queen though).
[tab][/tab] [spoiler]Vis manifested has been more or less constant through the years, but it has recently spiked (to the current levels). This came about when Lux the Phoenix moved into the flame and began her hibernation.[/spoiler]

The Silk Silver Vein
Yield: 6 Muto, 12 Terram
Access: Easy
Security: Medium
Rights: Owned
[tab][/tab]The covenant owns nearby silver mines, and in one there is a vein of strange silky silver. The guild that owns the mining rights and labors for the covenant sets this strange material aside for them.
[tab][/tab][spoiler]Because of the indirect way this vis is gathered, the covenant is not aware of its true nature. Six pawns are pure Terram, but another six are pawns of Dedicated Muto Terram Vis. The miners find the vis as they sort through their ore, and are equipped with a Lesser Device to extract the silk-silver from it. This destroys the special properties of the vis, but yields six Muto and twelve Terram.[/spoiler]

Herbs from the Garden of Delight
Yield: Muto 1, Perdo 4, Corpus 3, Herbam 3, Imaginem 3, Mentem 3
Access: Easy
Security: High
Rights: Gift
[tab][/tab]Archmagus Antonio, former Pontifex lost to Twilight, established this rooftop garden many years ago atop the main covenant keep. Seeds and grafts were taken from magical foliage he discovered in a Regio in the ruins of Babylon whilst adventuring. He named this garden after the one he discovered there. It is a nice garden, and there are many pretty flowers. The fact is that the majority of the plants are mundane in nature, just exotic. Some yield fruits or edible roots. But there are a few plants that have magical properties and/or yield vis.
[tab][/tab][spoiler]There are several different small plants that yeild different vis. Look up the mystical properties of herbs to match arts if you want to help flesh this out. For now, it is to fill in small numbers. The yields are small in each respective Art, and mostly go straight into storage in the Herbal Vault in dried & powdered form.[/spoiler]

Storm Sheep
Yield: 12 Auram
Access: Easy
Security: Medium
Rights: Owned
[tab][/tab]Three storm sheep were discovered/captured by Carmen during the adventure involving Vulcanus’ former rival. They were found inside the regio, outside the property. Details were never definitively ascertained. Regardless, the sheep are semi-intelligent (childlike) and will nag when they need their wool sheared. With the wool growth rate of their breed, this needs to be done twice a year. This wool is a material manifestation of Auram Vis, the heavy shearing in Spring yields 3 pawns per animal and the light shearing in Fall yields one pawn each. This equals four pawns times three sheep, for a total of 12 Auram per year.
[tab][/tab][spoiler]The sheep have the Gift of Speech with Tongues. But the do not talk so much as they babble and whine. They have the intellect of sheep. They can fly, but this is more like floating, as if they were clouds. They also “rain” in unpleasant fashion (urination), but this is good for crops and could be part of the reason agriculture is bountiful. Also, since they have to be kept by covenant shepherds outside of the keep, they are a security risk.[/spoiler]

Share of the Tagus
Yield: 6 Ignem, 4 Perdo
Access: Direct Deposit
Security: Low
Rights: Tribute
[tab][/tab]Due to their association with the Knights of Seneca, they own a fraction of the vis resources controlled by that group, located in the historic Tagus River Valley. It is registered and harvested with and by Redcaps, and it all goes into the Mercere account records (anachronistic bankers that they are).
[tab][/tab][spoiler]The Tagus river valley is the legendary site of Flambeau’s Final Battle, wherein he employed a vast amount of vis to detonate in a massive concussive burst of fiery destruction. His follower Delendos was the only survivor, and further legend states that he and Apromor cleaned the valley of all evidence of this conflict. The valley is a beautiful patch of nature with a mild Magic Aura. There are no ghosts, no signs of destruction, none of that. Just trees and flowers and birds and the river and the vis. This is harvested from the shrubs and rocks. The Knights of Seneca, as a group, have registered this as theirs and written into the Iberian Peripheral Code. However, this harvest is not doled out to individuals. Rather, members of that societas have the right to go there. The fact that Andorra has a share delivered to them is by arrangement of Past Master Fuego the Alchemist. His followers do make regular harvest and deliver a share to Andorra as tribute. This is because the covenant is the ancestral home of the knights, and at the time also the residence of Grandmaster Antonio. Carmen is only dimly aware of this, Roberto only knows the lore that there was a battle there once. The rest know nothing at all, except maybe that it comes from an old political arrangement.[/spoiler]

Sanctuary of Ice:
Yield: 9 Rego
Access: Moderate
Security: High
Rights: Owned
[tab][/tab]
[tab][/tab][spoiler][/spoiler]

The Stone Sentinel:
Yield: 6 Intellego
Access: Difficult
Security: Low
Rights: Owned
[tab][/tab]Discovered long ago and set high in the mountains, this statue of a man sitting staring east seems crudely carved and/or worn away by endless ages. It has seen many things. The eyes glow slightly as the sentinel slowly fills with Intellego vis. The rate has been measured as one in spring, two in summer, three in fall, then none in winter. The vis builds up and the capacity is unknown, but it is tapped at least every five years.
[tab][/tab][spoiler]The sentinel does not have a true capacity limit. It just yields only so much at a time using conventional methods. The numbers above are just recorded lore, and a gathering of every five years for thirty pawns are simply what instructions say is best to do. It is hard to get up there, almost impossible for a non-magus. And there is a potential hazard of encounters with griffons or bear-owls.[/spoiler]

Vis Stocks
[tab][/tab]I don’t want to do the math or breakdowns for this part. In truth, the Major Boon granting the even exchange rate is intended to make things easy on me. The benefit to characters is a side effect.
[tab][/tab]So, making a handwave guestimate; abstractly accounting for losses and finds, the price of doing business, random expenses and bonuses, and all that stupid BS;
Vis Stock Totals: six-hundred-and-twenty-three pawns 1242 (valued at eight-twenty-five)
Creo 59, Intellego 41, Muto 33, Perdo 48, Rego 30
Animal 28, Aquam 23, Auram 32, Corpus 28, Herbam 33
Ignem 99, Imaginem 22, Mentem 21, Terram 29, Vim 97

[tab][/tab]It may look pretty, but keep in mind that maintaining a high level vis stock is the main reason the Mercere are so willing to do business with us. We have an even exchange rate with them, and likewise they with us.

Marko, you probably don't remember, but we changed this vis source to:

At the center of the circle (of the regios "vestiges") is a spring that bubbles up water containing vim vis, that fills a small natural pool (that holds 8 pawns of the water) Once the pool is full, the water overflows and seeps back into the ground, with the overflow being unharvestable. All of the sanctum "vestiges" encircle the pool, making it the focal point of the regio
With thirteen lunar cycles per year, the spring can potentially yield 104 pawns of vim if tapped regularly.

Also, I would like to take "ownership" of the Sa Dragonera vis source and the whole regio "vestiges" idea, as the adventure I have planned will basically explain all of it, as well as finding a new vis source on the island.

That all works for me :smiley:

I was actually planning on having a Terram vis source in Guiverna's quarter, being a tree that bears turquoise instead of fruit. When picked at the peak of ripeness, each gem is a pawn of vis. Picked too early or too late, and the gem simply crumbles to dust in the hand.

Not sure, though, how to reflect this in the building rules. I want to say that it would be Personal Resources, with "Lesser" being three pawns a year and "Greater" being ten pawns, but I'm not sure.

That Personal Boon represents a one time payout of stuff in hand, not a reoccuring resource.

but, I do like the idea. We can use it somewhere.

Hum... Yes, it's probably better, I agree.

Of course!! In her opinion, there are better and worse options, but anything that is done can prove useful, and strenghten Andorra :smiley:

Such a spell, by making its targets bigger, would protect them from the same kind of effect that fell the grogs of the previous covenant.

Both are great, but Arachné will agree with you that Wings of Daedalus is probably better.

I'm not sure I understand you, so, just in case: You can teach the mastery, you can't teach a spell.
So, if, say, Arachné has a spell, you can teach her the boosted mastery for it, but she won't be able to learn a Boosted spell from you, since she doesn't have the virtue.

:open_mouth:
I just love this soooo much.
Very good work, I've put in the covenant description, on the wiki
andorra.wikidot.com/covenant

I wonder, should I separe the vis page? It is awesome.

Gotta go!