JL, I think you may be muddying things up a bit, so I want to go back to RAW for a bit.
RAW is that a Gifted student will impose a penalty on any Teaching source quality due to his Gift (-3 or -6 as appropriate)
RAW states that a Gifted teacher without Parma teaching a Gifted student without Parma stacks their penalties
That is what RAW (per Apprentices) says.
I, and JL, had mentioned that we thought multiple Gifted students in a single classroom should stack their penalties; Marko disagrees. I'm okay with that but would like to ensure that fits with other rules situations.
Imagine a situation where two magi, both with the "normal" Gift, are talking to a mundane merchant. Do that simply apply a -3 penalty to social interactions, or does the presence of both of them together so freak out the merchant that they apply a -6? The answer to that question should be the same as whatever we decide for multiple Gifted students in the classroom.
As an aside, I also believe whatever the penalty is should also apply to the source quality of any mundane students in the classroom as well.
This Saga can decide to impact the Order in any way it chooses. Perhaps the reason it has never happened is because it has never been tried in an organised and planned manner. I'm not saying that it should, just that it can. There was a time when Universities didn't exist. It took some out-of-the-box thinking to build them.
Saying a saga can't do something because it's not happened before is defeating the point of playing a game.
Agreed. I'll stop any further commentary on the subject, with one exception below.
That's not quite what I'm saying. But the Order is filled with a bunch of smart people. What's being discussed isn't exactly revolutionary to Mythic Europe, but it would be to the Order. The Order is generally a progressive institution with respect to Mythic Europe, but is conservative in adherence to its own traditions, namely, in the training of apprentices. Go ahead and do it; if it was never done before and it was possible, there are reasons it wasn't done, and ignoring those reasons is ignoring story.
There's a big to do about how the Gift makes people dislike and not trust the Gifted individual. It's expressed as a -3 social interaction penalty. It seems a tad unlikely that a bunch of Gifted students wouldn't affect other students learning.
There is little benefit to creating HR's to micro-manage things that rarely, if ever, happen. I am not worried about Order wide consequences. Only this saga. I can conjure and imagine endless reasons for why and why not which are not based on rules. This is all just fiction, and as I have stated many times, the science of Statistical Calculus does not apply to the paradigm of Mythic Europe. Nor are there any Reason Auras (anyore :mrgreen: ).
There are two unique factors at play. I am encouraging people to take advantage of Silveroak's school that Fleur set up. Thereby embracing and incorporating the concept, giving Silveroak accolades and other players cause to give some leeway to ideas; and also milking a little story and stress from it.
Secondly, it will not affect many all at the same time. Right now we are dealing with two or three potential apprentices, staggered to start in different years. It is likely that not all will attend class at once. Lucien maybe not until after Carmen gets frustrated by her lack of progress on her own.
I can't see anything definitive either way. The max value of the leading Magus probably should be a cap in per season use. So if you need more than MaTh x2 then it needs to be over multiple seasons
I don't think The Fixer is correct here. Preparing an Item for Enchantment isn't an activity that requires a lab total, assisting in the lab adds to the lab total. So, having assistants shouldn't help the process.
Preparing for Enchantment must happen in a single season, it's kind of buried and worded less than clearly
The above also implies that you can't have assistance in the lab to open greater devices (they would mention it here, otherwise).
Thought so. Which means the only option would be something like Valdarian runes; but I don't know how much of a bonus that gives to opening items? I see Vulcanus has MT 6, and I know he could use 3 rooks (Vocis told Antoine such), so presumably it's 5*MT. Which means you'd still need MT 12 to do what Arachné is proposing!
Technically, Antoine's Reforging mystery would let him get there eventually, by adding Philosophiae pawns a season for a long time.
In contemplation of my Tytalus maga who wished to be a Hermetic Shipwright and open a ship as an enchanted device (50 pawns for a small cog, as I recall) I was looking at (Major) Philosophic Alchemy. The Virtue allows you to instill some vis within a device before opening, basically, take the Creo Vim vis extraction total and that's the number of pawns already "pre-prepared" into the device, it happens as a seasonal or year activity, and requires a lot of attention or the extraction is ruined. Then, in a subsequent season one can actually prepare the device normally, adding MTx2 to what Vim vis is already there.
I'm not recalling what Valdarian Runes do or if they are functionally equivalent to Elder Runes, my guess is that they offer the same as Elder Runes, at least, possibly a bit more. I know Elder Runes Minor Mystery Virtue allow a Verditius crafter to use Philosopiae x MT as the limit for magic theory (among other things). Also, don't forget your crafting bonuses to reduce the amount of vis necessary to open an item. It maybe worthwhile to invest some time in craft ability related to the item being created if it doesn't match your crafting ability.
A note: in winter 1242 Fleur is planning on investigating the snake charm she obtained in the magic version of the cave of shadows- It was hinted at that the insight it provided might be for fertility magic or something very different, and having already gained insight from all the living results of that trip she has decided she needs to know if she has enough material to finish her research. I do not know if this results in a story or simply a different type of insight or what...
She gained 16 breakthrough points, used 15 for Fertility lore, she has 3 fertility fetishes she knows she can use, then the snake charms and the skull charm that she was cautioned to be careful with. She needs 34 more breakthrough points to gain Fertility Ritual Magic, and she can gain 5 of these when she creates her own fertility fetish, which she plans to do after gaining some more skill in both a craft and fertility lore.
It would need, at the very least, to be thematically relied IMO, and Donna would need to have all the virtues involved.
Feels a little like a cop-out, though.
This makes my head bleed...
I'd say it depends on how giant the sword would be.
A sword for a giant size 3 would be 10 times as heavy than one for a size 0 human, and about twice as long in every direction.
I'd be tempter to say to divide time per 2 for each 3 points of size, but this ignores both the difficulty of having to work such a large mass of iron (consider there's a division by 4 between shortword and longsword), and becomes a headache if you want to do size 4 or 5.
=> IMO, take the time it takes a normal craftsman, and divide by the final size of the giant. It's simple.
Oh, no, she'd open the item on her own, limited by 2*MT, she needs help to enchant it.
IIRC, no help with opening, although someone else can open for you.
EDIT: JL beat me to it, I agree with him.
I also happen to agree with him regarding apprentices (The more shaddy looking guys around, the more I freak out), but, well...
Oh, I see. And of course a level 60 effect only needs 6 pawns of vis, so that's entirely doable.
In which case, I don't know if she or you are underestimating Verditius froodiness. Even though Terram is Antoine's worst Form, he still has a ReTe Lab Total of at least 35*, meaning he could perform the enchantment unaided in a year (obviously, still quite a long time). If that's better than you thought, I'll post in-character.
Re 6 + Te 1 + Aura 5 + Int 4 + MT(Enchanting) 7 + Forge (4 base + 2 items + 1 Re + 2 Te) + Inventive Genius 3 = 35. No account taken of Shape or Form (or Verdi runes, because he didn't open the item).
Um, don't you take the amount of the LT above the level of the device and accumulate that much each season of work? So to get this done in a year would take a LT of 75. (75 is 15 above 60, accumulating 15 points per season so you'd have 60 after a year.)
Or am I forgetting something important in my analysis?
Never say die! Go for those exploding experimentation dice!
(actually, experimentation dice don't explode do they? The extraordinary results can, I think, but the actual dice you roll to improve your lab total can't?)
In theory, it's doable for Arachne. She'd just need five assistants to agree to help her for two seasons. Figure she can get about 44 on her ReTe LT. If each magus adds approx 9 to that LT, you can get to about 90, which will get you the device in two seasons. Thankfully Arachne can lead five assistants in the lab.
