Thats the guidbox to which I was referring. My numbers were off but then Im using serf's parma atm. Basically you spend a season refining and then use the points from that refinement to build (or add) stuff.
And yes, most certainly for lab rats, the seasons spent refining and again those further seasons spent adding virtues (spending the build points) is worth every minute in stackable bonuses.
The way you start with flaws and virutes IIRC is to take the starting allocation of build points and decide how you want to spend them. If you had no flaws for instance, then you might take 4 minor virtues and two greater virtues for 10 points. But thrift conscious magi might claw back points by taking flaws to pay for some of the virtues and leave some build points in their refinement slot for later use.
I suggest using an equal number of free virtues and flaws.
The ones Mark suggested don't have to be balanced (they are free free virtues).
Apart from that it is one season for getting a refinement and one for spending your refined space for a minor virtue (two for a major virtue). I suggest we rule out auspicious dicing (spotless, highly organized and hidden defect must be balanced).
Hmm well IMO the lab improvement rules are already sufficiently difficult to get one's head around. I think we should play it by the book without handwaving. True lab rats will have more than enough time consumption to deal with if they want flawless labs, so let's leave it as it is.
Refinement is pretty straightforward: if I have a Refinement of 1, Virtues-Flaws has to equal 1, etc. I assume that the cost of Virtues and Flaws is as for characters, +/-1 for Minor, +/-3 for Major (I can't find anywhere in the text that it actually says that, but the example on pg. 113 confirms it).
OK, I just found the rules on pg. 113. It says that a size 0 lab starts with no Virtues and Flaws--but some of the Structure V's and F's would have to be there when the lab was built. Or is that just a "standard" lab, and not all starting labs have to be standard?
Also, I'm not sure what you mean about "far more virtues than flaws"--I mean, even if your Magic Theory is 8, you could only have a difference of 5 points of Virtues--say, a Major and two Minors. Am I missing something here?
I guess at this point I've figured out most of it, but I still need to know the guidelines for the starting lab--that is, if there's any flexibility on structure and whatnot.
LOL, all the freedom you want. If it does not fit into the castle, we will build you a shed out back. Don't worry about what resources we have as far as craftsmen and etceteras. We have what you need. Just try to keep upkeep to +5 or less, and the size is +0 to start. You start with a basic lab, you do not have to build from scratch
Mark will have to rule on this himself, I guess, but my impression was “be as free with the (non-Supernatural) Free Virtues/Flaws as you want, within Upkeep limitsâ€. Major and Minor virtues must, I imagine, still be handled as normal – either by taking a season to install it and increasing the occupied Size of your lab (if you have a big lab already), by taking Flaws to balance them, or by increasing Refinement.
I think being able to pick and choose from Free Virtues and Flaws that we could reasonably have attained allows us to have more interesting, more personalized labs. The Free virtues I think of as the most mechanically powerful, Mark has given us already (Magical Heat/Light, Superior Tools, Superior Construction, Superior Equipment etc) which means the ones left over can and should be for fluff. This is in accordance with the RAW, which does not require that Free Virtues and Flaws balance, only that major and minor ones do.
Naturally, virtues that take up space (Major and Minor), Features, and special magic items would still need seasons to prepare and upgrade. Since Spotless and Highly Organized have special rules (and Assistant and Familiar are gained through play), those should be done in accordance with the rules as well. Other than that, however, I think Free Virtues and Flaws should be just that – free. The gain in character and personalization of labs is too great to ignore.
Edit: Mark just addressed exactly my point, below. Awesome.
Well, since she just got there, I don't think I could assume any real personalization--wouldn't she be taking over a lab from someone else? (Otherwise, it would take two seasons to build it.) You said we could assume Superior Equipment and Superior Tools. What about Superior Construction and Servant? Since neither of those adds to Upkeep, there's otherwise nothing to discourage taking them.
Faerie Ingredients. So appropriate...and easy to explain right off the bat.
I created a lab already. It's at the end of Marie's character sheet in the character thread. Is that okay?
PS: I don't care if it is underpowered. For me it feels right.
Jean Michelles lab is perfect. Scott, you have Superior Construction, Defenses, and Magical Heating and Light. When a magus moves out, we clean out his lab and prep it for the next member. You do not have to have superior anything, but you may take it of you want. Faerie Ingredients make sense. Just design a lab, and I will make any suggestions or corrections. But note, even Free Virtues take a season to instal. In a season of refinement, you can make as many changes as you want, as long as it fits within your Refinement score.
Again, correction. In a season of refinement all you do is refinement i.e. accumulate build points. Any actual improvements undertaken are not done in a season of refinement but in a following or later season as time permits.
