Table Talk - Development

A skinchanging ice wizard does not mutate. It is either a lynx or a human. It is not in between or in the process of transforming LOL

Why Method Caster? Unchanging method? Might be an idea, but I think I will pass over this one.

My list of V&F is something like this right now, so it is already strained.

VIRTUES (+7)
+3 Mythic Blood (effect to be fully defined, but including cold resistance)
+0 Puissant Aquam
+0 Minor Focus (ice)
+1 special circumstances (cold weather)
+1 skinchanger (lynx)
+1 piercing gaze
+1 Animal Ken

FLAWS (-7)
-3 Weak Magic Resistance (near large sources of heat, including +15 damage or above ignem spells)
-1 Known Weakness (by the most inapropiate persons according to our SG)
-1 Incompatible Creo Herbam
-1 Deleterious Circumstances (hot weather)
-1 Magical Animal Companion (Large Winter Wolf of size +1, as per the tremere book. A friend, not a pet)
-0 Reckless

I think this defines the character quite well, in the end. No need for cyclic magic.

Cheers,

Xavi

Very weak philosophy. Transformation is mutation you silly git! :stuck_out_tongue:

The only way to resolve this dispute is ... a cage match to the death.

I call dibs on the loser's stuff.

You mutables, do not understand that mutation is an imperfect state. This is one of the many reasons you are imperfect. Now, stillness it is how a proper being should look like. Still, strong, unchanging.

Xavi

Which only goes to show how completely wrongly you perceive my character and his beliefs.

Ice has dulled your perception acutely and your wit. All that you think is unchanging is in flux and imperfect. You believe in ends but not the process to those ends. Even our Hermetic Theory demonstrates the absurdity of your convictions else effects would simply be without any necessity to incant them or execute any action whatsoever and Magi merely so at once by mere reason of the Gift without the need for the arduous transition of apprenticeship, which even you had to undergo, lest you have forgotten!

That which you think is real and immutable is not the end but the process which began when the perfect unity of being was sundered, begetting all that we are and know, and have yet to learn. Cycles are undeniable to all but perhaps those who bury themselves in ice caves and those cycles reflect the imperfection inherent in the present state even as they reflect the perfection which could be reattained with the re-unification of the realms and all they embody and contain.

You have far to go to comprehend what true immutability is. :wink:

(This will show that I still have to find the time to read you character at all. Or anyone's for that matter)

We are sidetracking the character creation thread here, so I reserve my reply for the first in character discussion between me and this weakling of boxer.

Basic philosophy: No transition between states: you are a magus or you are not."Mutable things" can be subdiovided into short periods where they are static and beautiful. The only thing that I still have to integtrate in ,muy theory is that nagging "time" thingy. Appart from that as usual. Or X or no X.

Xavi

I was having breakfast (actually, burning my toasts in the toaster) when it hit me in the forehead that the concept is looking more along the lines of the archtypical bright winter faerie than a proper flambeau. Cool, detached, aloof and crytalline. No mud & dirt, no bloood, no laughs, no suffering and self sacrifice, no thrill. No real guts, basically. To me a flambeau ends a combat soaked in dirt and blood (usually his and huis enemies), not looking like a perfume advertisement supermodel. :unamused:

I think Mark Faulkner will enter a rampage if we all continue to follow this line for the Andorra saga :laughing:

As a consequence, I am changing the PERSONALITY of the magus, even if not the ice focus. being an ice expert doesn't make you a frigid block of frozen stuff. You can also be a cool guy! (yeah, extremely lame joke, I know. You can stone me now :laughing: ).

I will be boosting the hunter, thrilling and bombastic aspect of the magus and move away from the detached nature of it. After all, ice giants (magical) have quite a temper in a lot of stories.

So, boxer, we will have to think about an other aspect of nature to insult us In Character. probably I will call you "weakling" in winter and you can find a similar epitet for me when I am seriously sweating in summer.

Xavi

Boxer,
I dig your little insight into how Dragan might relate to various characters. I did a little of that in my prologue so far, but it was shrouded in dialogue. Following your lead, I decided to write up a little diddy about how your characters are perceived through the eyes of the npc magi. You first :wink:.

Florenzo finds you intriguing, and genuinely thinks you would be an asset to Andorra. They are having problems with their magical wilderness. He is not as frou-frou as he may seem, though he is taking an air of refinement as a result of his association with the Barcelona magi. He sees you as an interesting combination in contradiction. Antonio is at once both more casual and conservative that you may expect. Me may think you are strange, but if you are fierce and proud he will respect you. He may bust your balls sometimes, but he is too experienced and wise to have Diedne paranoia over every Celtic magus he meets. Carmen will think you are weird, but she thinks we are all weird. Deep down inside, she sometimes wishes she could have been a normal Jewish girl instead of a freak.

Jean-Michelle,

I recommend you do not this. Take 25 seasons instead, and you will end up with many times many more spell levels than 250.
But anyway, Florenzo has noticed you, but has categorized you as miscellaneous. More than a score of magi have come and gone in the fifty years since he was born. But he feels sorry for your disability. Antonio feels no pity for you. Rather, he admires your self reliance and determination. You have been here a while, and I can imagine you getting all “Tytalus” on grogs and stuff. He would rein you in when you do that. He has tried using Creo magic to restore your hands, but the unique nature of the Faerie curse simply will not allow that to work. You think Carmen is pushy, but you take inspiration in her courage. The two of you have girl-talk moments from time to time.
And your lab is cool!

Max,
Florenzo is suspicious of you, and worries that you will try and take over his father’s position. And his sweet lab. Florenzo is also the only one who sees the writing on the wall. Andorra’s era as a Flambeau covenant is coming to a close, and the Mercere are the natural successors. As far as your backstory, I honestly have no idea who the Neo-Mercurians are. You were born here it seems, but where were you apprenticed? If here, then we have to figure out how you relate to the missing Rodrigo. If somewhere else and you are returning here, then the two of you come from different lineages. Anyway, Antonio is impressed with your spells! You would make a fine Flambeau :wink:. He is Catholic, but he is tolerant of the fact that his fellow magi often have diverse strange religious beliefs. He may be culturally unsympathetic and say the wrong thing sometimes though. There is a chapel with a small divine lacunae (aura 1), and it also serves as a mosque or synagogue (no clergy, run your own ceremony if you want, but there is a divine presence). You won’t be allowed to worship your pagan gods here though. He will say that the rest of the castle has a magic aura for you, leave the one holy spot alone. Carmen is undecided about religion. Her father is Catholic, her mother is Jewish. She likes Judaism better, but thinks they are all wrong about a bunch of stuff. She is curious about your reinvented religion, and will ask how it works.

Scott
Antonio deliberately recruited Viola for three reasons. Foremost is the difficulties with the faerie wilderness around the other side of the mountain, and he hopes that the expertise of a Merinita maga may be the solution to the problem. It doesn’t matter if you can or cannot live up to his expectations. He sees potential in you. The second reason is those casks of faerie wine of yours. The wine is good, and as a vis source they are a handy thing to have around. He hopes you like sharing :slight_smile:. And finally, well, he thinks you are a hot chick. It is that more than anything. Beware his wiley ways! Carmen has classified you as weird.

Octavius,
You may have met Florenzo just about anywhere in Iberia. He travels a lot. He stayed out of the Shadow Wars, but he did travel spend a lot of time at Duresca participating in a special library project back then. He respects you and gives you your due. Antonio thinks you are a bit stiff. He is Brave, as well as both Loyal and Wise, but he lacks your Temperance. You may not realize it, but he gives you the rigmarole just to mess with you sometimes. Like, sometimes he is giving you the “wise Archmagus” speech and you are listening intently to try and discern his hidden meaning. But really, he is just spitting out canned phrases, repeating snippets of things he read, and pulling improvised Bill Murray lines out of his arse. Carmen also thinks you are stiff. And weird. And oddly handsome.

Ken,
Aurea brings light and laughter with her. Florenzo doesn’t know what to think of you, and neither does Carmen. That’s because you have no stats yet, no personality traits or reputations (which is what I am mainly basing these knee-jerk reactions on). But Antonio’s opinion is all that matters, and he feels you belong here. He has no idea why you want to be here, but he loved having you here. The reason for that is up to you. It is easy to take a decent presence score and tigger his lechery. It would be more interesting if you were some sort of musician, such as a singer &/or a lute player. Troubadour culture is popular in this region of Spain :smiley: It would go along excellently with your book of songs.

Jarkman
The one the only!

Muttonbone!
Florenzo is very interested in your ambitions, and Carmen doesn’t think one way or the other about you. However, Antonio doesn’t trust you. He does not say it outright, and at the request of (your benefactor), he gave you the last open spot available with open arms. He wants to keep a close eye on you.

Xavi
Florenzo sees you as a fixture. You have been around long enough and are unique enough to stand out in his memory. His opinion of you depends on seeng some stats. Same goes for Carmen. As for Antonio, he admires your unique approach but he may criticize you if you are over specialized. I dunno. We will have to wait and see

Xalbador
You are on the right path. Florenzo and Carmen recognize you as being the real deal. Antonio has high hopes for you. You show Courage, your Loyalty will be tested, and you need to work on temperance and wisdom. You can sense great things are soon to come.

Fixer
What can I say? Florenzo and Carmen thing you are weird, but you and your lineage are part of the tradition of this covenant. Antonio thinks you are awesome. You may have done some work for him at one point (no need to specify what, since you are using the efficient method). The covenant will give you extras with the understanding that you don’t price gouge us

I am totally insane running a game with 10 player characters! This is gonna be legendary!

Wasn't there another post that specified the sizes of our labs? I have no idea where to look for it at this point.

Scott

Just a minor note to say that there is no such thing as a divine lacuna, nor a magic one or any other. Lacuna simply are lacuna with a mundane aura of 0. The point being that it is the intersection of any two realms where the auras effectively cancel each other out. No benefit but no detriment either.

Sounds like a perfect candidate to disabuse of the fantasies of religion in favour of a true grasp of actual nature of the cosmos! 8)

As for my courage and fierceness, Antonio should have no qualms. Dragan doesn't start fights for the sake of fighting but will most certainly defend the wilderness and its denizens against any who dare threaten it.

Nah, you'll just split us up and run a panopoly of side events and then tie them together at periodic intervals (council sessions, tribunals, major covenant battles, the amputation of Marie's feet as well (oops j/k), etc, in the vein of all truly great storytellers! :slight_smile:

George R.R. Martin will be amazed, you'll see! :slight_smile:

the spells are:

Library spells are 130 lvls for 130xp:Watching Ward (ReVi 35), Leap of Homecoming (ReCo35), Pilum of Fire (CrIg20), Veil of Invisibility (PeIm20), Vision of Heat's Light (InIg20)

For me a perfect mix of seeing the enemy, being unseen, and being nearly indestructable in battle (since Marie can get teleported away if she's on the losing side).

The 120 levels of parens/mentor taught spells are:
The Earth split asunder (ReTe 30)
Rusted decay of 10-score years (PeTe10)
The Treacherous Spear (ReHe25)
The Unseen porter (ReTe10)
Aura of Rightful Authority (ReMe20)
Call to Slumber (ReMe10)
Disguise of the Transformed Image (MuIm 15)

Of course, if you think those spells are too powerful, or against the rules or need of the story somehow - feel free to forbid any or set a maximum level - I do not feel that this character is underpowered as it is (if that is what you are worried about).
In fact, I gave her some of the most potent battle-spells I could think of so Marie can become worthy of fighting together with classic Flambeau battle mages: Marie is quite able to kill off a medium-sized mundane army all by herself.

Hmm seems lots of our number may have Earth Split Asunder as a learned spell (or some variant thereof). I only hope it isnt something people feel free to fling about or Dragan will be rather annoyed at constantly having to heal the destruction lol.

Actually, I'm not exactly clear on how we design labs. Obviously, refinement has to be added by the character herself, but how do we decide on other Virtues and Flaws? It's not like we have a number of build points to work with.

Scott

Yours is +0

Actually MT, the way the Lab improvement system works, you DO have a number of build points. Basically you start with an unrefined lab and list its basic stats. Then for each season you dedicate to refining the lab you earn refinement points. Then you must again spend one or more seasons spending those points to add the upgrades you want. Rinse and repeat.

The process can be very long and arduous, especially where specific architectural skills are required and thus the need for manual labour to achieve what you wish. Not sure what the local area provides by way of diversity of crafts.

But the Refinement rules only cover the Refinement stat. What about things like guards, or the shape of the lab, or potted plants, or whatever? Yes, Refinement gives tells you how many Virtues in excess of Flaws you can have, but as long as Virtues and Flaws balance, there's no limit to them, and there are no rules that specify how those things might be added (other than certain things, like magic items).

Scott

Do we need numbers for every little grog free virtue? When I created Marie's lab, I just tried to use common sense and tried to more or less balance the free virtues. I hope this lab debate is about colouring the background more than anything else anyway. Or are we going to spend our time in the labs? Marie wants to have fresh blood on her hands and not some dusty lab shelves!!!

Oh wait, OK, there it is, buried in the side bar on pg. 114--it costs a season to add 10 build points. How do you start with Flaws (and the matching Virtues), though? Would those all have to be Structure Virtues and Flaws?

Also...a question for you munchkins out there. Are the tiny bonuses you get from Refinement and adding Virtues worth the seasons of work?

Scott

Well, Viola is kind of a lab rat. :slight_smile:

How much freedom do we have in determining what kind of structure our lab is built in? I need guidelines, dammit!

Scott

Sorry, you seem to be misunderstanding the rules. I can appreciate that since I had to read the Guide Box several times to get the gist of the process.

The Refinement stat is merely like a reserve to which points are added for each season you spend on a declared activity of refining the lab. With the points allocated to that reserve you then must dedicate seasons to buying virtues (i.e. physical enlargement, addition of special instrumentation, etc..). As you add the bought virtues you also take flaws if you wish to save on points. However, if for example you had spent three seasons refining the lab (not necessarily consecutive seasons) and had 3 refinement points in your pool you could purchase a great Virtue without taking a flaw since you have the points to pay for it outright. Or you could take 3 minor virtues and still pay directly from your point pool.

Over time the labs will have far more virtues than flaws and some may have only virtues and no flaws if the magus in question spends enough time refining and then adding improvements.