Cool. For Magical Heat and Light, you have a choice. -1 Upkeep or +1 Ig & +1 Im.
Okey doke. Sounds good.
Hopefully not too bad, since a lot of those can be Adventures, and he can always be Trained by people he meets or Practice spell mastery, what have you. I think Andorra is also allied with a group of Islamic magi in the Order (Estancia Escarida, I think they’re called?), who would probably let you read their books in your off time if you asked nice.
He could also get involved with an Islamic Mystery Cult there, go on some Quests, maybe Initiate some virtues. Plus, have you considered original research? If you had time to crunch the numbers and were able to figure out sources of Insight from your travels, you might even be able to do a Minor Breakthrough before the saga started.
Everyone who is ready, go ahead and post your character in the Character Sheets thread. We can edit and fix them there now 
I seem to be able to edit now but asked Wendy Wyman a day or two ago. Up till then I haven't been able to edit.
Have since gone back and fixed a few things in the "Map of Andorra" thread and my embarassing faux (fatigue, man) on FLorenzo's languages...
Hope this helps,
Lachie
Thanks, I made changes on the character sheet to reflect 2 per year for a warping score of 3 with 3 xp left over as Octavian is 14 years out of gauntlet.
I think cyclic magic is more à propos. Although, I'm not familiar with what kind of winters Iberia experiences. I'd guess it is somewhat mild due to proximity to the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. Also, many animals tend to hibernate or at least their life cycle slows down so I feel it might downplay your hunter concept.
I believe you wanted to talk to me about potentially taking mythic blood? If so, I'd gladly discuss it with you. I think you missed my reply to your original question about it.
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We do as of now. Thanks.
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On that I agree. Part of my motivation was to try and remove through the narrative some of the infernal elements in the white wolf story. The character himself didn't learn arabic (I'm a skill whore and wasted perhaps a few too many points taking several skills rather than concentrating and imaginem is pretty harsh as most effects will tend to be spontaneous so art scores also demand attention) so most of his perspective would be from the Christian side of things. Although I don't think I went out of my way to paint in favour of one side or the other.
However, I do have a suggestion. Since there are so many languages that eventually do morph into dialects of a greater tongue, maybe the saga could have a house rule in terms of language skill progression being closer to hermetic arts rather than regular skills? From what has been discussed, there appears to be a half dozen or more languages spoken in the area and Jarkman and Xavi have made reference that if you know language A, then you are considered to have language B at A level -2 and so forth which gets complicated. Just a thought.
My write-up of the bakground did not place Octavian at the scene of the battle but investigating matters post-fight. However, you did inspire a potential idea coupled with the earlier comments about spreading the evil. Say Octavian and his Guernicus quaesitor mentor were initially charged to investigate. As they delved deeper into it, evidence was beginning to appear that pointed to non-shadow flambeau mystical influence in the events. Thus he was faced with 2 options:
-
Do what is "right" and seek the truth. Pursue the investigation and potentially uncover evidence incriminating magi in good standing in the Order. This could add oil to the fire and division in the Tribunal at a time of great strife. Even leading to possible lawlessness in the Tribunal.
-
Do what was "best" and maintain order among the magi of the Order by reporting the shadow flambeau were involved. If any hermetic magi were indeed involved in the fight they would certainly side in favour of this so as not to incriminate themselves. Those already with grudges against the Shadow Flambeau would simply add it to their pile of grievances. The neutral or ambivalent magi might be inspired to get involved in defeating them but for the most part their attitude would probably remain unchanged. The skeptical would either be drowned out by the fervor of the fanatics or face severe peer pressure for believing otherwise (much like how the Bush administration pressured many politicians in approving the Patriot Act in the wake of 9-11).
In the end, Octavian chose the 2nd for the sake of peace. This would also contribute to his pragmatic personality. Not to mention, IIRC the Iberia book states that soon after the battle, the covens agreed to erect hermes' portals between each other for defense. This show of unity would definetly fall under the doctrine of House Tremere.
I'm happy for the critisicm as it allows me to go back and make corrections for a better narrative and to fit it with the saga. Afterall, Ars magica is about the troupe and making the story elements synch. In that breath, I'd still like to potentially discuss amongst the troupe the general relations we might have with each other or at least those that have spent some time together at the covenant.
This is all fine although I think you meant Duresca from the above snippet.
Very insightful observation. While I didn't voice this, it was definetly a very big impression and influence on the character creation.
Actually, I was inspired by one of my players in an old saga. He wanted to play a meritana (sp?) gypsy fortune teller (at the time he was heavily into WoD and clan Ravnos in particular) so I did some research and found the reference to it. He ended up using something else but the idea came to me for this campaign from a snippet in HoH: TL that said Tremere favour easy to carry talismans like rings or some such. I'm not sure if the gypsies were in Iberia at the time, but certainly in eastern europe (where House Tremere has many of its roots).
Glancing at him again, I had two more questions about Octavian. When did he open his talisman for enchantment? I know he attuned it, but doesn't he have to spend a season opening it for enchantment himself before it can be attuned? Also, what Mystery Cult initiated him into Great Talisman? Doesn't he need a score of at least 1 in their Cult Lore before he's eligible?
Don't mean to nitpick, just things that jumped out at me. Other than those, he looks great!
I would agree that cyclic maqic would be more suitable (and useful). Moreover it wouldnt be just Winter since the cycle for benefit has to be as long as the cycle where there is no benefit or perhaps a negative if you happen to take the cyclic magic (negative) Flaw. So you could have Winter and Say Summer (sounds strange perhaps but Im sure in a hot summer an ice wizard would like to be at the top of his game to keep cool 
). My character, Dragan, has Spring and Autumn for growth and decline.
I might be willing to consider switching to Spring/Summer for growth and fruition if you preferred Autumn and Winter for decline and death/stasis, but that would depend also if you wanted to wait 6 months for the beneficial cycle to begin again or just 3 months between cycles. Either way I'm ok depending on how the idea strikes you.
As for Iberian winters, likely not the same in Andorra as they might be in Andalucia or whatever it was then. Andorra is up high so it would have plenty of snow in Winter. I imagine you'll be the Julie Andrews of the Pyrennes running over the snow covered hills singing:
The hills are asleep
'neath an icey blanket
the birds have all fled
for a warmer clime
The ice fills my heart
With its cold enchantment
My heart wants to sore on its frigid winds
as they whip past the peaks
My heart wants to delve and explore
all the darkling depths
where the howling North Wind shrieks
(and so on, sung to the tune of the Hills Are Alive)
Btw Mark, I now have an edit function on my screen. Thanks!
My character will likely get mixed reception. From a Tremere and a winter wizard there might be short or protracted distrust and suspicion, since I appear (outside of formal settings) as a savage and perhaps with druidic inclinations (is he a Diedne or does he know any?). That all depends how you play your Tremere though I suppose. As a likely polar opposite of your regimented and proudly manipulative House we may end up being respected rivals or you may find him ultimately insightful, can't say until we get there I guess.
Likely I will have an arms length but cordial relationship with Buttercup though finding her quaintly absurd unless and until I understand her purpose outside of fairy tales.
Marie is likely to elicit some sympathy at first glance but may prove to be far more worthy of respect and caution.
The Verdi will be an enticement as he will display involvement with the fae which will intrigue my Magus and perhaps lead to interesting collaborations, depending on how that evil might manifest in his actions.
Antonio is an unknown quantity, fiery yet introspective so perhaps interesting fuel for exploring his deeper motivations.
The Knights, perhaps also useful allies in a what may be a common quest for differing purposes.
The Bonisagi, Al A'war, looks like he will be an intriguing periodic discussion mate and likely an oddity from his moorish ways. Might be intrigued by my message of the reunification of the realms and unified cosmology so another avenue to explore in its time if and when the situation arises.
Florenzo, probably a healthy but also distant respect since he would seem more an urban scholar and accustomed to finery more than the wilds or the fringes of existence, etc. He might likely turn his nose up at me unless I manage to open his eyes to something he has not considered before. We shall see.
If Ive forgotten anyone I do apologise.
Hope that answers the salient points.
Oh and Marko, I did read your comment a few posts ago where you ran through the morning brief. I DO need to get going on the finalisation of Dragan, he is all in head little more on paper than you saw earlier. Sorry been otherwise occupied of late. As for his mention in the narrative, I didn't expect it but can work with it as written. I had another opening scene for him envisaged to follow on from the starting lines of the saga so Ill just work into my narrative what you already wrote perhaps from a slightly differing or enlarged perspective. Hope to have something finished for the weekend if not entirely finished (which i doubt) but I will do him asap. Sorry again for the delay.
Muttonbone! You threw me a curve ball! I like your being the Moslem character. I was hoping Jarkman would play an Islamic Flambeau! Still, the Arabs and Berbers did not get along well, and the Almohades persecute Sahir and Hermetic magic with equal intolerance. And then there is the…,
Hmmm…
Hmm….
Work with Jarkman. He knows Andalusia better than I do. Do I have your e-mail address?
Wards Revised and Simplified! (or did I complicate it more?)
Circle Wards Circular Wards must be Circle/Ring/Ind spells, naturally. They must also match the Realm and Form of the subject being warded against. No penetration is ever calculated, though you still check your Casting Total for Fatigue loss. Circular Wards are good against qualified subjects up to a might equal to their level. They may not be invested as magical devices, but if the material that the ring is made out of durable material, they can last for an indefinite duration.
Other Wards These must still match Realm and Form, and must Penetrate. However, if the subject is using a Might Score for Magic Resistance, you do not subtract Level from Casting Total. You may invest this kind of Ward as an Enchantment.
These Wards can keep magical bears at bay, let you walk through armies of swordsmen, and etceteras. However, the catch is that they are indiscriminate. If you ward yourself against all wooden and metal weapons, then all wooden and metal objects on your person fly away from you. There goes your sword and armour. If you ward against magical animals, you can’t hug the magical bear, it can’t hug you, and if someone pushed you into a pit full of magical bears stacked one on another, you will bounce off of them and still not touch.
Columbae None of you are Colombae. They have extra cool warding powers, The can create blanked wards that only have to match Realm or Form, as long as the subject is specific.
Protective Spells The good old Ward against Heat and Flames is a Protective Spell, in that it protects against a substance up to a certain potency, and only the amount over its protection is what affects you. The effect is standard across the board. ReIg25 grants +15 soak against Fire, and a separate ReIg25 grants +15 soak against Cold. ReAu25 grants +15 soak versus Lightning, ReAq25 for +15 against Acid, ReTe25 for +15 against metal weapons, a separate ReTe25 for a +15 against rocks, and so on and so forth.
What do you fine gentlemen thing of that idea?
Labs (revised)
The covenant will support you for a maximum Upkeep of 5, though the Steward would appreciate it if you try to keep it 4 or under. Except for Fixer, because certain duties are expected of him, he is allowed a higher Upkeep. The steward would appreciate it if you keep it under 7 though. We have sufficient craftsmen that Superior Equipment and Superior Tools do not affect Upkeep.
Spell Training
Looking over what I wrote yesterday, my paraphrasing of Spell Training is misleading. The total number of levels taught equals the teacher’s highest Lab Total of all the Arts involved. The level(s) you may learn is limited by your Lab Total in that specific combination.
For example, you spend a season with Antonio learning 60 levels of spells (assuming at least one of the spells is either CrAu, ReAu, or CrIg; as those lab totals all fall between 60 & 64). Now, lets say that your ReCo total is 31, ReIg is 25 on the dot and your CrIg is 19. You cannot learn CrIg20 Pilium of Fire, but you can learn CrIg5 Palm of Flame, and then round out the batch with ReCo30 Seven League Stride and ReIg25 Ward against Heat & Flames.
Fast skimming the last page of the thread. Reading this properly tonight.
@Boxer: I am cool with a Summer-winter cycle I will go for an ermine skinchanger, then. It makes for an interesting pair of characters there. Did you take the negative cycle for summer-winter or only the positive side of things?
I will have to reread the cycle magic thing tonight to make sure it MUST include half the year to be effective. It still sounds a little bit weird to be at +3 during summer, after all....
Meh, I might end up with a bipolar mage. Maybe I should consider have a focus in steam during summer and ice during winter (use one or the other focus depending on the season) or something like that! 
LMAO
EDIT:
Even if I can see a winter/summer (still, unchanging) as opposed to a spring/autumn (mutable) one, I think I will pass. My character is bound to have entrenched opinions about things being black or white: you are or you are not, you do not flow. That kind of philosophy can apply both to summer and winter (and in any case it will make her look at Boxer's character with distaste since she thinks that long change is plain "wrong".
So, I might simply take Special Circumstances (sub zero temperatures). Makes sense for the mage more than having a schizoid personality
In this case we will still be lacking in a "summer" character being full of himself, active and proud like a hot air bag.... wait. That is a regular flambeau, right?
Cheers,
Xavi
I'll make the faerie companion for you. I would have prefered you posted the full sheet instead of a link, but I am not gonna get sticky. As long as we can access it.
Middle Europe saw some of its coldest Medieval winters between 1220 and 1240, with temperatures dropping about 0,2K (annual average) below the 8,05°C long time average, even though the trend up to 1300 is in general rather positive (Glaser et al, 2004). That may not seem much, but the 1990s were only about 0,4K above that long-time average, so if we consider the importance of agriculture around 1220, it can safely be assumed that it was a time of particular hardship and coold winters.
Temperatures in Andorra in °C (andorratoerisme.com). Even if you included the -0,2K from the Middle Ages, a 0°C temperature limit for a mage wouldn't be a good deal, even in the Andorran mountains.
Januari 3,1 Juli 20,3
Februari 6,0 Augustus 18,2
Maart 7,5 September 14,8
April 6,2 Oktober 9,6
Mei 11,8 November 4,5
Juni 16,6 December 3,0
I suggest a bonus for 5°C or lower, no bonus between 5°C and 20°C and a malus (if you need one) for 20°C and above. Europe inm general has less extreme temperatures than the US.
Yes I think our characters will be interesting and have interesting interactions but might I just point out that ermines are found more in flat tundra or marshlands than on mountain pinnacles. Maybe a mountain goat? It would coincide better with your gruff wintry persona .
I only have the positive cycle but I also have method caster so I am not totally bereft of ability during the off seasons
Well it says that the cycles must be regular and then goes on to say explicitly that the time the bonus applies must be equal to the time it does not, ergo you cant have a cycle of just one season, it has to be two. The benefit is you get it as part of your labwork too if its a full season. If you arent convinced or comfortable with a winter summer cycle then take Autumn Winter and Ill take Spring and Summer. Just means we have to wait longer for our cycles to return. Up to you.
I'm sorry I don't really understand what the point of that ramble was. Are you saying that you dont want cyclical magic or that you DO want Summer/Winter and a disdain of my character?
Is this in addition to cyclic magic or as an alternative?
I am almost certain I listed our Verdi, our Flambeau, possibly even our Merenita depending on how she is played, Antonio (certainly) and The Knights of Seneca are all summer characters (thematically speaking).
All of the seasons are covered From what I see.
Wouldn't it be possible to have a one-season bonus that's a bit higher? I mean, I know that's now how the version in the rules works, but it could still be balanced.
Scott
That's outside of RAW and up to the guy with the Silver Hammer to decide. Im just telling it like the book says.
It is mainly up to the troupe to decide. As long as it balances and makes sense on the sheet, I am fine with it.
Gruff wintry persona!??!!? You must be REALLY fortunate that I do not let my emotions rule my judgment (as opposed to what those pesky and despicable mutants do). Otherwise you might have ended up regretting such a nonsensical affirmation. Of course, being the inferior being you are, maybe you simply couldn't understand the whole idea of perfection of being that I happen to be. Because you can only be or not be. There is no "becoming" or "moving into". You just are or are not. I am perfect. You aren't. end of story. Ah, the beauty of stillness! Trust a mutable magus to mess things up....
And there you go with the kind of philosophy (even if not necessarily the tone) that my mage is likely to defend: stability over change. There is point A and point B. You are at one or the other, but not "in between A and B. "between" as movement or changing from A to become B is anthitetical to her way of looking at things. Radical changes or no change at all. Graduality is nonsense. A natural ally of Boxer as you can see 
Goats have the problem of not being hunters. Otherwise it would have been rather good, to tell the truth I will end up with the lynx as my animal of choice, I think, since it is solitary, nocturnal and a hunter. Wolves are too gregarious here.
EDIT: JUst checked wikipedia. Ermines are listed as living in northern spain there. No idea about its validity, though.
About the special circumstances (and drawbacks) I was thinking about special circumstances INSTEAD of cyclic bonus. It is more limited in scope, and more flexible at once, so you can fine-tune the bonus/malus better than with a 50/50 yearly bonus/malus.
The summer thingy (or autumn, for that matter) in the cyclic magic term just sounds weird for an ice magus. I think that having a plus and downside based on ambient temperature fits better with my mage concept.
However, the special circumstances can be abused easily IMO: make a magic item that turns my lab at freezing levels. Tadda! +3 permanent bonus 
Regardless of what I select, I will disdain your magus, don't worry. Ice and mutability do not match well.
Cheers,
Xavi
Perhaps but there is more to Northern Spain than the Pyrennes. Marshes or plains of Northern Spain, perhaps.
Yes I think Lynx is a nice choice for its more predatory flair and makes more sense (if only slightly) than ermine for mountainous habitat.
Of course, a viable alternative for you. You might also consider Method Caster.
Well again that's why I offered to switch out of Autumn and take Summer but again, its up to you. Just let me know once youre absolutely settled.
Any virtue can be abused with a little clever forethought.
As for disdain of mutability, my character might not be so mutable (no more so than a skinchanging Ice WIzard lol), even if he recognizes the cycles and advances a doctrine of change from the present transitional state of the cosmos and the realms. That change may be abrupt or remain gradual, such is not for him to know as he performs the role he was born to.
Even ice can be thawed, so be careful