Table Talk - Development

Mark and I have discussed his ties to the Legion via PM, and he’s come up with a solution and storytelling direction that I more or less had in mind all along. I was very careful to make his ties to the Legion tenuous at best. I think this is well in hand, but if you have questions shoot me a PM. Looks like Mark plans to forward it all to you anyway.

If he were five to ten years younger, I’d absolutely agree with you, but at the current date I considered and ultimately rejected Lost Love. Mostly because the flavor text really turned me off. I took Optimistic to represent that he doesn’t live in the past, but looks toward the future. He’s not the sort of person who “gives up easily” even if he did lose the love of his life. It was ten years ago, time passes. He lives in the world and is part of it, but isn’t so wedded to the past that he’s crippled by it.

It’s true that Incomprehensible isn’t the world’s greatest flaw for him now (when first taking V&Fs I didn’t anticipate the direction this character would take), but I probably won’t take Lost Love. He already has a Restriction, which makes me loathe to take another one. I suppose I could change his current restriction to the one you suggest, although I think True Feeling would rarely if ever come into play because my character concept is that he pretty much always has strong emotional ties to people.

Sanguine Humor’s Blessing is very interesting indeed, and I noticed it only after I was a ways through development, or I well might have taken it. At this stage I really don’t want to go back all the way back to the drawing board and juggle my V&Fs any more, although if there were a way to gain it through play that would be interesting to me. Even though Dependent is the Flaw that’s more important to his story, I would probably take the “Attack or Defend” bonuses (given that he has Enemies anyway) since they’re more associated with his style of protection. Can I take it in exchange for "formally" taking Mentor and Enemies as flaws, or did you have something else in mind?

A large castle full of mature Flambeau and other combat magi, protected by one Archmage and regularly visited by others, with a potent Aegis isn’t secure? What am I missing here?

Keeping track of Kesara is a genuine issue, but his Intellego bites the big one right now. He does carry an Arcane Connection to her at all times, but that’s about the size of it. Commissioning a Verditius to make a tracking device is possible, but does this mean I have to go back and muck with his advancement again?

Sorry, meant to change that earlier, as we discussed. I’ll edit it in the character sheets thread.

Thanks for you comments!

I’m genuinely curious, how is he getting 20 Penetration, much less 30? It looks like his base Penetration with good old Pilum of Fire is only +11 or so. A Casting Total of 24 gives +4 Penetration, and with his specialized Penetration skill and Penetration Mastery that’s another +7, right? I suppose he could abuse Life Boost, but he’d need to basically fatigue himself nearly to exhaustion or rely on luck for 30 Penetration. Something with Might 30 probably has a large size or a big soak, which means multiple Pila will be needed to solve the problem. Even adding Confidence, I don’t see where that’s coming from.

This will be the most high powered campaign I’ve ever played in, so I can’t say from experience how true these statements are. However, in building Inigo and seeing how other people come together, Might as written looks about right. I think most of the combat specialized magi here could take a Might 30 creature with relatively little trouble. A Might 40 creature would be a roadblock but one very lucky person or a few of us together should be able to handle it. Am I in crazy town for thinking this?

Penetration for enchanted devices is moderately ridiculous. I notice our resident Verdi has taken advantage of this :stuck_out_tongue:.

Yes, abuse of Life Boost is essential, as is throwing large chunks of vis at an opponent. Loud Words & Bold Gestures adds +2, Confidence adds +6 (Self Confident), Mastery adds to Casting and Penetration. And I figure an average roll of 5. I designed him to Penetrate 20, using 1 fatigue if even that. If I exhaust myself I can penetrate 30 to 35. In ten years time, who knows?

Out of curiosity, what makes penetration for enchanted devices "moderately ridiculous"?

Scott

Basically the fact that you get 2 for 1 with devices which means any realtively qualified Verdi, even fresh out of gauntlet, can furnish devices which pack more penetrative firepower than many journeyman Magi could muster through spellcasting alone, even with levels of Mastery.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you. I love Verdi toys as much as the next guy. :wink:

Yeah, but if you want to create an enchantment in a single season, you need two points of Lab Total to get one level of effect...so yes, you can get ridiculous Penetration totals, but you have to spend more than one season on a device to get them (and actually, I think I like this, because it gives magi a real reason to create enchanted items).

Scott

I've just caught up on messages Re this. Go with Marko's ruling.

Points taken. I don't think that's necessarily the case though - sure, Hermetic magic can't change True Feelings but non-Hermetic magic can.... remember the Dispassionate Flaw in GoTF?

How about swap Incomprehensible for Mentor or perhaps Cabal Legacy if Marko approves. Fits better and is already part of your Story in any case - although this means 2 Story Flaws at creation.

Up to Marko, but I'd suggest that if you're willing to start play with the Enemies Flaw, there's the potential to develop the Virtue during Saga play I suppose...

Note that this collection of Story Flaws means that by RAW they'll come up a lot during play, which may not suit the direction of the Saga.

You have powerful enemies don't you?

Can you really trust everyone, are they all as they seem...

Perhaps you could commission the item from the resident Verditius?

Great concept regardless.

BTW, I only haven't commented on Marie and Viola because of a) time and b) they're outside my comfort zone and seem pretty sorted already. They both look like great characters!

Cheers,

Lachie

Not necessarily.

Yup! ^^

As a fellow knight and andorran resident, I can also take this out of my build-in item seasons for the covenant.
He taught me a season of Perdo for this (and gave me the needed vis, but nothing more :wink:)
As marko prefers, I guess, I can take it out of the list or create it later in game (although I'll ask for either vis or a season's teaching :wink:)

So, here you are, anyway:
Locate the missing Daughter
InCo 20 (Base 3, Arcane +4, Concentration +1)
Unlimited uses (+10) => 30.
Expires in 70 years.
Lesser enchanted item

(this'd probably the second, and latest, version of such items. He maybe had 2-3 previous similar enchantments with a 7 year expiry limit, although I am loathe to take it out of my "for the covenant" items list, as this'd be for nothing. Maybe he previously had one made by my kinder mater?)

Indeed. This does have possibility, although it would have to be SG’d carefully. It basically takes control of my character’s motivations and actions away from me as the player, which has great potential to be no fun. Still, point is taken and I could see it being done in a fun and tasteful way.

Well, that’s always a problem. But what’s the alternative? Trust no one and lock her in a cellar? That’s not his way. It’s a loose end, but then, that’s sort of what Flaws are supposed to be.

Sweet deal! Always good to keep in in-house rather than making up another NPC. For the actual effect, could we make it something more like Eye of the Sage? The ability to actually see her would be sweet, although if DT’s Imaginem is low and this is impossible, that’s OK. This does add some levels, but I also don’t need so many uses per day. Usage would be 0-3/day on most days, and even in some kind of emergency situation I can’t see usage going above 6-12 in one day. Thoughts?

In any case, cool ideas all around. Sanguine Humor’s Blessing has awesome synergy and really ties everything full circle, so I’d like to pick it up during development. I will also shuffle my current Virtues and Flaws a bit. If I were feeling as crazy as I was when I started this, I’d go back and integrate all this into my development. As things stand now, that doesn’t seem feasible, so instead, how about this:

I’ll add another year, in which I teach Dimir Taar (Q10, btw). During that time, I’ll also use the Initiation mechanics to describe my acquisition of Sanguine Humor’s Blessing, even though I didn’t actually Initiate it but somehow developed it over the years. For rules purposes I’ll treat it as if he had Initiated it, since that’s the existing mechanic for acquiring new V&Fs. It’s a quick and dirty way to describe what I want without a ton more work. Seem good?

I'll see if I can do it (later, gotta go to work now).
[color=red]This asks for a spirit able to find your daughter, but also to transmit images of her location in your mind's eye. Such entities aren't found easily. I could surely do it, for few spirits escape my mastery, but this would take too much time.[color=blue]
(In fact, I checked, I suck at imaginem and can't do it as a lesser item :laughing: )

Well, I dunno if it is nescessary for you to take this into account, unless maybe you wanna do the teaching after the game begins?

And yes, seems fine to me, in part because I like it very much :blush:

I need to do some editing of Decimus and it could take sometime to get the time to do it but next week I might have the time. I completely misread the A&A rules that I have used.

True enough, although with the addition of temporary duration items, it’s easier than it’s ever been to create Lesser Items even for non-specialists, what with the multicative boost to excess Lab Total. Rather compounds the problem. This is discussed a fair bit in the retired Iron Magus saga, if you’re interested in that sort of thing.

[color=red] Hmm. In any case, so many uses per day seems excessive. Could we opt for a more versatile effect in exchange for fewer uses? [color=blue] Maybe go up to base 4, "Sense very general information about a body...", so that he can tell if she's alright rather than just finding her. I can probably spont a momentary duration spell to locate her general direction, and if she's actually missing (as in kidnapped) then there are other options to find her. I don't need a whole item built around one eventuality.

Don’t you have to give up a season and futz with your advancement accordingly, or are we both just handwaving it? If you’re handwaving, I’m perfectly fine to do the same.

Well, we had 40XPs per season, to dispatch how we wanted (like, 2 seasons at 15, 1 at 10, one doing nothing).

Some of these "void" seasons include items I did for background reasons, like:

  • To sell to other magi
  • In service to the covenant
  • As gifts
  • In exchange for teaching.

For exemple, this include an armor for Antonio.

I do not profit from these actually (don't own them or else), this is just fluff to my character.
My own magical items were, however, paid with those average -10XPs seasons.

I don't know if I'm clear.

Anyway, IMO, since you profit from the item, we could do one of these 2 things:

  • You add up a season of virtual teaching to me, to "pay" for it. I add nothing to my XP, as this is, virtually speaking, already accounted for.
  • After the game begins, you actually spends one season of teaching.

You have Antonio's scores, so you know how to crunch the numbbers for his training. Unless you want spells. He can teach you an obnoxious number of spells in a single season. I'll pick the ones he teaches :wink:

This could be less or more XPs or spells, I don't care much, this took me enough time as it is, and I am both lazy and occupied :blush:

Jean Michelle,

Why was Elias forced to learn how to fight against his will? Those are experience points better spent elsewhere maybe? Andorra has elite custos for our soldiers. He wouldn’t make the grade. Covenfolk grogs don’t need combat skills. And you don’t have anything granting you access to Martial Abilities anyway. And Outsider is a Major Flaw, even for a grog (though I think being Jewish or Moslem is not such a big deal in Spain, I don’t wan to House Rule anything else at the moment).

And Lejla has one too many flaw points :slight_smile: But you are allowed excess Flaws I suppose.

Ken K! Come Back! I will let you take the “Eleventh Finger” minor virtue!

Just FYI: in general Moslems were NOT welcomed in Catalonia at the time. being a Mosleem in the pyrenees could easily end with you dying in a nice burning house, for example. Most people did not venture very far from home, and the border between the mosleems and the christians was quite a bit to the south there. being a Mosleem north of the Ebro river would be quite dangerous, actually.

Cheers,

Xavi

Well, I didn't want him just to sit around when the action starts, and I thought living at Andorra qualified any grog for Martial abilities (if I had a detailed char creation I could certainly invent sth).
But I could easily give him Profession: Barber (shaving) instead.
Makes the guy hopelessly useless for combat but more realistic.

The virtue is from the Divine: It says being a Jew in an area with a high Jewish population like Iberia is a minor flaw for a grog.

Well the big Torquemada events were later, but yes: Being a Muslim is a MAJOR Flaw (so a Muslim needs to speak perfect Spanish and needs some magical disguise to evade most of the problems).