Does someone of you have a suitable mercurian necessary condition that I could use in stead of twilight prone? Every suggestion are welcome. Does anyone know if there are some arts that are more Cult of Mercury than the others?
Necessary condition:
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always work around even numbers. So you must spend an even number of pawns of vis, use an even number of valuable sacrificial beasts, cast on an even number of targets....
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you must be togate to conduct a ritual
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you must have a number of aides that equal or exceed the number of pawns of vis you are going to use, and they must have some sort of supernatural talent (be at least partially Gifted) (I like this one BTW)
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You must have performed an augury in order to perform other rituals. if the augury was bad, you add a certain number of botch dice.
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You must have purificated yourself (you need thermae) before you perform a main ritual
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the Target of your spells must be at least Group/Room in size.
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You must make a sacrifice of a beast of virtue if tyhe ritual is above level 25. (White bulls anyone?)
Just from the top of my head.
Cheers,
Xavi
Maybe a Restriction instead? Perhaps the magic of the CoM, which was originally supposed to be used to support the empire and work in concert with the other Mercurians, cannot be used in any way against Rome or other Mercurians. Hmm.
That could give you a Necessary Condition or a Restriction, depending on how you worked it.
Now, Rome has fallen, but the flaw might trigger against the legal successors to Rome and her authority--the Church, what's left of the Eastern Empire, stuff like that. Hmm.
What does togate mean?
Upon further reflection I would also posit another possible moderating element to my character's Non-Hermetic Earth Warden ability for your consideration...
What if, in order to "awaken" (as it were) to a given category (Mountain, Forest or Animal) he would have to spend a fixed amount of time as a genus loci to a new category (suggesting that he had first initiated the Guardian of Nature mystery virtue). Perhaps a required 3 years per type (celtic mysticism is replete with "three's").
This would necessitate serious revision of the numbers for his apprenticeship and s fair whack of the allowed post guantlet years to achieve respectable earth warden numbers leaving him weaker in other areas by comparison to his sodales.
This would certainly maintain the theme and concept and perhaps even deepen them.
It could also provide the justification for his having come to Andorra in the first place beyond the original off-the-cuff thought that he was in Spain to rediscover more of Amergin's previous life. He would be there also because he had NOT yet attained his Mountain abilities and would be seeking to initiate them having just returned to physical form after three years prior to start of play.
Sound workable?
What? We're so already on our way to making our covenant of Flambeau really Diedne.... 
/10
LOL. Would give my character the odd Druid to chat with no doubt. Don't think they would last long though with a Flambeau order of knights lurking about the premises lol.
Wearing a toga. Very Roman.
This doesn't address the issue at all.
I still don't see why existing v/fs don't work.
I also still notice (whoever it was)'s observation, that taking three categories is overkill. Mountain, Forest and Animal covers pretty much everywhere and everything the character is ever likely to be.
(BTW, Mountain and Forest alone already include the animals of mountains and forests...)
But going this route, suppose you invested the three years per Nature Lore thing you describe, with three virtues RAW.
At Mark's canonical 10xp/season, that's 120xp in each one. That's a score of 6 in each, plus a little. That's not at all bad.
Of course, if you're looking for Ultimate Power, you really need 12s in each. And I'm all for your going for it. Hell, even with starting with it. But why not do it by the book? The mechanics to do exactly what you want already exist. Just take three Nature Lores as your Ex Misc package. You don't even need to limit yourself to 13v/fs.
Why create a new rule?
I've said mine. Troupe decision at this point, and I'll be fine regardless.
Anyway,
Ken
Read again, our statements aren't contradictory 
The PeTe spell don't destroy Terram inside the parma, just beneath it
So, you would destroy Ignem around the parma, not inside it.
Then again. The entire point of such PeTe spells is that they attack outside the parma If your magus held some stone in his hand, it wouldn't be affected.
What I just said is that you PeIg spell would create cold outside the parma, not inside it. Thus, first, the magus wouldn't suffer cold.
And this created cold would very quickly dissipate, as all the air around is warmer.
I certainly would agree with this.
This seems to me to be incredibly powerfull.
Why bother with spending fatigue when it'll only give you what? An average of +3 levels???
This is an awfull lot better than Diedne Magic, which includes a Dark Secret.
Maybe you could make your non-fatiguing spontaneous magic be divided by 3 instead? Thus, it is less über, and you've still got an interest in spending fatigue?
Or hell, keep the name, and take the mechanics of diedne magic without the dark secret... 
Note also that Spell Improvisation might be good for you, too.
I agree with Strange Magic, it is fun, take it 
Anyway, as 4th and 5th are at times very different, I think you'd best recreate the character from scratch. That's just what I'm doing
Yes. There's a standard from this, but I can't remember it.
Maybe 3 points per year, but I'm unsure about it.
Mostly agreed, save on house merinita lore.
If you're as deep into a cult as violet seems, I very much doubt you can get there with only 1 in merinita lore.
Isn't there a guideline from this somewhere?
Anyway, at her level of initiation, I think a 5 is a minimum (I'll have fewer initiations and I'm aiming for this...).
Potent spontaneous magic: Ok, save that you should drop the bit about confidence.
It is to a potent art in every technique and form!!! 15 minor virtues!!! The fact that it only applies to spontaneous magic balances it somewhat, but appliying it after the roll if spending confidence is way too powerfull.
And to think boxer was stomped for his 3 virtues in one
Quoted for truth!
Unless you're casting many sponts at once, the Diedne Virtue is a good bit more powerful, since it doubles one of the Arts involved.
That beind said, I'd be perfectly happy with the Diedne version, and there's no inherent reason it has to be associated with a Dark Secret (after all, it was a perfectly legitimate form of magic before the Schism)--but I'm guessing that Diedne-like powers would draw suspicion (even if they came from Viola's faerie nature, and not the secret incorporation of one of more Diedne into House Merinita).
Mark already gave her that (it's part of Faerie-raised Magic), but I don't see it as very useful, since she doesn't know many formulaics in the first place.
I really, really don't want to create a new character from scratch (for reasons I already mentioned), and the sponting is pretty central to this character.
It's 2 points of year, and I've already added them to the 1220 version.
For being initiated, the only requirement is either a 1 in Merinita Lore, or having been trained by a Merinita; you only need higher scores either to initiate others or to hold a rank in the cult (and this cult has no ranks...). That being said, by 1220 her Merinita Lore is 2. At the moment, there are no younger members of the cult, and so there's no real reason for her to devote study time to raising it yet. Were she to take another apprentice, I think she'd want to get it up to 3 or 4.
I'm not sure about the Confidence part, but remember that this is a mystery, and a costly one for Viola: it came with two Minor Flaws, one of which is Deleterious Circumstances (Iron), and as a deep inner mystery, it's only likely to be seen in more advanced magi, where (because they have higher Art levels anyway) it's less significant.
Scott
Anything trashing your spontaneous magic
And no prob with your v/f
I'm not sure I understand.
Taking Faerie-raised magic instead of the Innate thing! Go for it!!!!
And then, taking the strange magic minor flaw, applying weird magic -like to everything without warping? Oh yes, take it, I like it
Fine by me.
So... The description of weird magic, but happening more often, without warping?
Okay.
IIRC, your original idea was this:
- Take 3 minor virtues, name them "Warden of Nature"
- Have 3 abilities names "Warden of Nature: Mountain", "Warden of Nature: Animals" and "Warden of Nature: Forests"
Am I wrong?
Unless I am, I find this perfectly reasonnable, and see no need to change this. In game terms, you have 3 different abilities, they just have the same name, for a better fluff.
The only non-regular thing here is taking 3 minor virtues as per your Ex Misc package instead of a major one. Really, no big deal at all.
That's just it. There is no notion of "inside" the parma in the rules. Parma protects the magus, and maybe a select few. The air in the magus' lungs isn't frozen, and probably the air between him and his clothes, but that's about it.
Well, it's sort of fair. Diedne Magic == Fatigueless Spont/2 + Focus in Fatiguing Spont + Dark Secret. So Innate Magic is sort of half of the Diedne goodness. It's maybe one tad too good, because sometimes there is no risk of botch.
That might be better:
Innate Magic (Major)
You can spont dividing by 5 as usual. When you divide by two, you need not spend fatigue, but roll a stress die as usual, and can botch.
Potent Spontaneous Magic (Major)
When you spend fatigue on Spontaneous Magic, add the lowest Art to the Casting Score one extra time.
Hence, Diedne Magic (Major)
You have Innate Magic, Potent Spontaneous Magic and a Dark Secret.
chuckle Well, this is different.
Innate Magic was close enough to the Diedne fatigueless benefit, and Potent Spontaneous Magic close enough to the Diedne Art/2 benefit, that even though both parts are better, it was kind of close. The 3 virtues in 1 were three powerful virtues plus up to 550 free xps--and that caught my attention.
But yeah, maybe different people twig on different things. Your suggestion of using the pieces of Diedne Magic is probably better.
Maybe I'll make Buttercup a Diedne. /2
Anyway,
Ken
Exactly!
That's not an issue.
You should judge a power by what it does, and only that.
A major virtue giving you 15 potent arts, for spontaneous magic only, is very powerfull IMO, but fine if we're playing high-powered.
Getting it to add after the division if you're spending confidence is waaaay too powerfull IMO.
Note that spont magic being about half the castings in a game, this is what? 7.5 virtue points? Even if spont is 1/3 of all castings, this still makes you 5 minor virtues for 3 points. And you're saying you'll mostly spont
Wow! So much activity!
Nature Lore
I have deeply contemplated Nature Lore, and these are my thoughts.
The lesser form of Wilderness Lore, in this case Mountain Lore (Pyrenees), is similar to the Forest Lore presented in GotF (p 35). Indeed, from one end of these mountains to the other, there are many wonders both natural and supernatural. All that is required to learn this version of Wilderness Lore is time spent in the supernatural wild gaining knowledge.
The Wilderness Lore presented in Mystery Cults (p 102), which requires a Virtue, is a superior ability. This is mainly because it is an Outer Mystery that grants access to a set of specific Nature Mysteries, and you are better able to guide yourself or be guided down a path. Others wander with little knowledge or guidance.
As for Boxer, I do like your idea for the three-in-one variant Ex-Miscellanea tradition. My only real concern is the way it cheeps out on experience points. In your favor, this isn’t an Outer Mystery for further Inner Wilderness Mysteries, and the powers overlap somewhat. My one thought is that you need twice as many experience points as normal (10=1, 30=2, 60=3, 100=4, and so on).
Another compromise I just thought of! Earth Warden gives you three separate abilities at a starting score of 1. It isn’t an Outer Mystery, but it is still a single major virtue. This screws up your Puissant Wilderness Virtue (which, by the way, is the cheep shot that made me rethink this virtue of yours 
). As a substitute, how about Arcane Lore or something to give you xp’s for the three abilities?
As for study and vis gathering (you munchkin dastards!), the covenant’s aura does not count as wilderness, so you have to travel out a ways. Travel on foot in the mountains blows chunks, but in flight you can find a magic or faerie aura within a day’s travel that has an average level of 3, and in a season you can gather an average of 3 pawns of vis related to your nature lore. This always opens the potential for danger though, as magical wilderness areas are often homes of magical beasts. And don’t do this a lot. I am good at dreaming up ways of draining off lots of vis reserves.
As far as Scott's character, since I helped him make it, my take on it is that it seems fine. Strange Magic is a cool song name, and is an interesting minor sacrifice (accelerating the effects of weird magic). I like converting 4th ed material , and the Potent Spontaneous Magic was developed to give the Faerie Raised Merinita the spontaneous power they had in earlier days. My problem with using straight up Diedne Magic is that it is actually a package of two Major Virtues and amjor Flaw. Simply dropping Dark Secret from it overpowers the virtue.
But as I always say, play with power! Scott, if you like it better that way and the troupe is comfortable with it, then by all means.
Superpowers are fine, even great! Just so long as everyone has a niche.
Let me finalise the character and then we can see what the detractors think. I would argue that my suggestions have already mediated the concerns expressed so far and by comparison he is no more powerful or xp easy than the other characters presented.
Reserve judgement until its done.
Thanks
With one art at 12, one at 8, a stat of +2.
The diedne's without fatigue: 12+(8*2)+2 = 30/5 = lvl 6.
Diedne with fatigue: (30+die)/2 = 15 + die/2.
His character without fatigue: 12+8+2 = 22/2 = 11
His character with fatigue: 11+ die/2.
His fatigueless casting is superior.
With fatique, unless the diedne rolls 10+, he does as well on a 8+.
And this is just better if the difference between technique and form increases:
With arts of 15 and 5, the diedne with fatigue will cast a lvl 27/2 = 13 + die/2 spell.
He'll still cast his lvl 11+ die spell.
And he has no dark secret.
I'd choose this over diedne anytime, even without the secret.
Anyway, this is moot, since he seems he'll take Faerie-raised magic
Euh...
It seems that he wants 3 in one only for fluff.
In practice, he'd have 3 different nature lores
No need to make him pay double, then.
Hmm, Now I’m a little confused...
My impression was that, going season by season, we have the option of either doing:
A) Make up your own stuff, assuming you were trained somewhere other than Andorra. If you do this, stay in the general vicinity of using stuff with Quality of 10 on average, for something reasonably close to 40 exp per year.
B) Be trained at Andorra, and just pretend you lived there and were using the library. Use the books there and don’t worry about the 40 exp thing (although it may/should work out close to or a little above that given the quality of our library)
I haven’t yet got to the part where I’m at Andorra, so this is moot for me still, but I am confused. Do I have to “artificially†limit my study time so that I stay under 40 exp per year, when I do get there? Or can I just use the library as I would were I playing?
On combat with PeIg:
Using PeIg to do direct damage by removing heat directly from the target’s body (as Wizard’s Icy Grip) is clearly resisted, in the same way that having your armor PeTe’d is protected against by Parma (if we’re sticking strictly to the idea that I’m not creating cold, I’m destroying heat).
If you cast a spell to destroy heat “around†your target, I suspect MR would protect against destroying the heat near to a magus’s body (it’s the ‘having your armor PeTe’d’ argument again), but once the temperature is lowered it would equalize and that heat will naturally dissipate away from the maga in a mundane way – she’d still be cold. Depending on how much of the area was chilled and how long it takes the chill to go away, she might suffer some sort of ill effect, but I don’t know what (no rules for exposure to cold that I can see). It certainly wouldn’t be instantaneous, and I imagine she’d still be able to do some damage. If I want a mage killer, I have other options 
Comments about Viola:
I’m not thrilled about the massive VirtuFlaw, and I would’ve preferred that you’d just taken those virtues and flaws separately under 5th Edition rules and called it Faerie Raised Merinita. However, Mark seems to have already approved it, so whatever, I guess.
I'm not incredibly experienced with the Mysteries, but her House Lore does seem somewhat low. I'll see if I can read up on it later.
In general, I’m with Fixer on the confidence thing. That virtues are balanced by flaws is a given. 15x Potent seems like a little much.
Thanks, that's what I was trying to say, but you did it a lot better than me.
He didn't??? I'm so confused with this... T-T
What did he do? A major virtue combining multiple virtues and flaws balancing out for +3???
Not thrilled either. If we want more than 10 v/fs, later initiations and mysteries are there for it.