Table Talk - Development

underpowered. You spend too many points on to many Arts, neglected your Abilities, and didn't spend any time in the lab. In 20 years, no lab time. You may want to think about what it is you want to accomplish with this character, and focus your magical studies and achievments in that area.

I am going home, I will analyze tonight :smiley:

For your companion:

Hebrew is considered academic ability (dead language). I am not sure if it can be valid for a native language but maybe. I leave that for the SGs.

Your main abilities: You spent 6 ptd for intelligence 3, 1 pt for Communication 1 and 1 pt for Dexterity 1. This is 8 pts, improved characteristics means you have 10 pts to spend total. This leaves you with 2 pts left to either raising two of the 0's to 1 or 1 of the 1's to 2.

You underspent points for him by 5 in XP

Concept issues:

If you are jewish then your name is probably more along the lines of

Saul Ben [father's name]

Since you were taken for apprentice at age 10, did you have a bar mitzvah at age 13? Do you study during the time you were apprentice and if so where and how? (background might need some fleshing out)

I do have a bit of a concern though. Magic Theory of 6 for someone that never finished apprenticeship is amazing. Especially since you are right at the graduate apprenticeship level of years with your master.

You were son of a money lender, why is there no bargain skill at all?

you have cooking gear in your equipment list but no hunting, survival or Craft Baking/cooking skill to know how to really use them.

You have sacremental wine. That is a christian thing. Why don't you have kosher wine? No kosher food to get you where you are going?

You speak only hebrew and latin, how do you get around or get understood as you travel?

I know it is implied but you might want to list your Reputation 3 (Jew).

Underpowered? Other than a smallish spell selection, he's more powerful than me :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay, didn't realize Hebrew was dead language and not used language of the time period (I don't study history and know very little about Judaism--which is unfortunate as my Jewish friends occasionally have to shake heads over my ignorance of custom--- Once served bacon for breakfast for Jewish now-ex-girlfriend).. I imagine that can be easily fixed... the Name issue I was unaware of as well,, thank you for the clarification of that as I would not want to offend anyone with my ignorance. On the attribute ratings dwarf removes one point each from strength and stamina if I recall correctly, I'll check shortly.

The bar mitzvah thing I was ignorant of... any suggestions?

the magic theory of 6 is mostly a product of the affinity... I didn't realize it was inappropriate. Too high for a lab assistant? If so I can lower it.

The lack of a bargain skill was a gross oversight on my part, I'll be certain to include it in the redesign.

The cooking gear was not well thought out.. I'll have to include the cooking skills with the redesign. As for the wine, I admit I was watching robin hood, men in tights while designing this companion, and the idea struck me as funny :blush:

I forgot to list the reputation. I'll make sure to include it.

With languages, again I didn't realize Hebrew was already dead as of 1220. This is a product of my poor history background. What language would be appropriate to a child brought up within a Jewish home in Normandy in the late 12th and early 13th centuries?

And thanks for the input and especially the number analysis. It helps tons.

As you are highly educated (and have that educated virtue), you would have Hebrew to some level (4-5) most likely and French (norman dialect) as native language. Marko might say hebrew is fine as native language and that you just should get some norman french at a low level so you could have talked to those around you. This is going to be more a ST call as by the rules Hebrew is dead language but as someone of Jewish heritage, I can say it most certainly is not a dead language (ask any israeli) although it does not change much. (Torah fragments 2050 years old are exact same as the same words in the Torah today (aka dead sea scrolls))

Indeed, there is in the RoP: Divine book, a virtue called educated (hebrew) though that works like educated except points are for hebrew and ars liberales rather than latin and Ars liberales.

As in the main ooc thread, I am one of those that answer questions on judaism for the group having been raised jewish, teacher's aid/assistant teacher in the religious school and with sister whose degree is jewish education.

Basically in the jewish religion, at age 13, a boy undergoes a ceremony known as Bar Mitzvah. It celebrates him as being an adult now in regards to Jewish law. If you are religious and are a jew, then this would have been very important.

Keeping kosher is important too (there is no reform judaism at the time, me, I am bad in that I love bacon cheeseburgers and shrimp). Kosher has two major aspects:

  1. Foods you can eat and can't eat (No pork, no shrimp/lobster) etc.
  2. How the foods you can eat can be prepared and served. (no milk and meat together, meat has to be killed in certain way, etc....)

Name issue was so you could add to it.

You are right about dwarf and that corrects the discrepancy. I missed that.

I call your judgment into question Octavian. You equate high Art scores with power, and that is a mistake. Maybe that's why you cannot see how well designed your character is?

My Suggestions for Theseus …

I like the concept. At first I was “oh man, not another faerie blooded magus. We have a lot of them around here. But then I started to see the character as an individual, the simple purity of a core RAW magus (Agando told me he does not have any of the 5th edition supplaments, just the main rules). The character is true to his theme through and through. However, here are some finer points I’d like to suggest to be helpful :wink:
• I still think Lycanthrope is a bad idea, but if you want it, go for it. I can see now it is an intrinsic part of your character concept. You should learn how to change into a wolf when it is not a full moon and when you can keep your human mind, so that you can build up your wolf-skills.
• Your Restriction, it needs to be a little more Restricting :laughing: . Something like you cannot cast use magic while touching silver, nor can you cast magic upon any items of silver. No fair just disintegrating the silver collar before I get a chance to bind you with it :smiling_imp:
• The Dark Secret isn’t working for me here. If it was a local priest, then it would be a big deal. I think you should change it to Enemies as suggested.
• Visions, well, hummm. I have already used this twice, once on Octavian and again on Ameline. I think you should take something to flavor your character, like a Minor Personality Flaw. Tell us who you are and how you feel about it.
• Your Virtues look fine. Everyone, I okayed the 6 pawns of Corpus. I figure, relative to the power level of this saga, the Personal Vis Source Virtue is worth 3 pawns of Technique vis or 6 pawns for Form vis. Does anyone else have this virtue? What did I tell you then? I am forgetful.
• Abilities: I made a comment that you are short on your Abilities. This is indeed true, but you are solid on a couple of critical scores. I just want to point out to everyone: Notice the important design feature that some of you neglected on your own characters. I always suggest that any character intended for any sort of adventure, purposeful or incidental (and the incidental portion included lab rat magi), should have a Brawl score of at least 2 or 3. It is your default Defense when all else fails, it is your dodging skill. More so, if you spend a fatigue for an all out dodge, the bonus to Defense you get for Exertion equals your ability score. But all the other scores, the 1’s and 2’s. They are beginner scores, not tose of a seasoned magus.
• Arts: You spent way to many points on Arts and you didn’t do anything with them. I see you are mainly into healing from what your starting spells indicate. You need more spells. Consider that every 10xps represents a season, you can get a couple of years if you just shaved one point off of each of your double digit Arts. You shoulk take a few of those Arts down below 9. I mean, you can have a few mega-high Arts at your age. But all 10’s? Well, a few 0’s. It’s imbalanced, and you are going to find yourself playing catch-up. I can help you with spells if you want.

As for Hebrew, yeah, your Native Language would be the local vulgar language, and Hebrew requires Education.

I see some 10's and some 0's as someone with focus and interest. Still each season in labs reduces your xp to spend by 8. So if you were to take 4 of those 10's to 9's (say animal, and 3 techniques). You get 5 seaons in the lab which means 5 more spells (plus the additional 10 level levels since you originaly shorted yourself).

What makes a character powerful is not just arts. Because if most of your magic is then being sponted, you are effectively casting everything at half your stamina+art+form score. You will never penetrate magic resistance that way. A formulaic spell of level 5 or 10 with your full casting total can actually penetrate enemy magic resistance.

Reducing your Creo and Corpus by 1 each frees up 26 xp and herbam by 1 for 4 more gets you 4 more for 30 xp. That can raise two abilities of 2 to 3's or three abilities of 1 to 2.

I should point out that if there are shield grogs, there is no chance of physical attack hitting a mage until the shield grog is incapacitated. The benefits of bodyguarding. This is why a mage could have a brawl of 0 and survive. THere are also things like fast cast spell to get you out of danger, protective spells and such.

Arrows start flying. You have Shriek of the Impending Shafts granting you a +9 Defence. But with no Brawl, you start out at -3 and three additional botch dice; so my effective befrnse is +6 and I recieve no benefit from Exertion. With a brawl as low as 1 (specialized in dodge), my Defense is +10, +12 if I spend Fatigue.

Wise investment of 5xps and 15 levels of spells if you ask me :wink:

Maybe. Or you could spend 1 xp for brawl 0 (just removes the -3 penalty and 3 botch dice). Then you have defense of 9 starting off with that spell.

Not everyone is meant for battle though and sometimes someone has a low defense score. Those arrows start to fly and you fast cast wizard's leap or 7 league stride and you are well out of the area they will land.

Some wizards are good at negociating with mundanes, some can negociate wtih faeries and social skills and knowledge are much more powerful than those defenses because if you do it right, you might not have that horde of arrows coming at you.

Someone might need to focus on analysing what is up or healing the wounded so the fights don't hurt as bad. They don't necessarily need combat ability.

Our ASG has a definate bias towards lots of combat and danger and mages that can fight. I have made a few that can do that. I have also made some that can not. Ameline for example is horrible in combat (well she has brawl 1 now thanks to spring XP) but for dealing with mundanes, she is very capable and there are few healers that can match her.

That Brawl 1 places her defense at 4 points higher than it was before :wink:
Didn't anyone ever throw rocks at you as a kid? Or was that just me? I think I have the Blatant Gift in real life :laughing:

I took martial arts as a kid but my sister has never had a physical fight in her life. She would be one of those brawl 0 sorts that excelled in folk ken, creative writing, journalism, etc. Petite (5'2" and the shortest one in the entire extended family).

Most women in the middle ages do not fight, they don't train to fight, they aren't expected to fight. As kids, they are taught the home arts (cooking, cleaning, perhaps some farming and bargain) for peasants and the social arts for nobles and merchants (music, sewing, etiquette, dancing, looking pretty). A smattering of area lore and folk ken. A woman that fought would create shock and stunning on the faces of most people and the grace that they are taught is so at odds with fighting that they deserve the -3 and 3 extra botch dice as their training goes totally against what is needed to dodge attacks.

I do make some women characters but if they are warriors that can fight, they generally are oddities or hide it (such as my transvestite companion who potentially could be hired on and come in with this new lycanthrope mage.)

Hmmm. Maybe I am odd then. I don't have quite such a sexist view of the middle ages. Not that I am calling you sexist. I am just saying my observations lead me to different conclusions. Women worked in the fields as often as men did. young children playfight and wrestle. Women know how to use a knife at least. For Self Defense, not as Warriors. I am not saying women of the middle ages were like Xena or Rosie the Riveter. I am simply saying that they were not sissies or physically helpless. Not all of them anyway. I will try to find some historic references.

It may be my background that is unique, as skill in wrestling and boxing was emphacized when I was a small delicate child. Boys and Girls. Crying incurred greater punishment than stealing. Did I mention that I am descended from Spartans?

His skills are on par or better than mine own in terms of magical prowess. Again, other than a somewhat small formulaic/ritual spell selection the character is fine in terms of "power".

Mark, there is a difference between "design" and "power". In an online medium I GMed for L5R I created a non-player character that was purposefully inept, self-serving, grossly without honour and rewarded only the sycophantic but he was in a position of power due to inheritance and not merit.

Every player character hated his guts and the other gms grew jealous about how all the players were ranting on how they wanted their characters to take him down. When I stepped down due to RL, my replacement ran a story where they finally took him down and it was such a monumenous event that people bragged about participating in it for months.

I have the same view as Ladyphoenix... to me, I encourage the differences of the setting as compared to RL as it were, to include what you appear to consider sexism. :wink:

You are but that doesn't have anything to do with our debates and arguements. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

The culture that I grew up in, girls were not only discouraged from fighting but punished heavily for it. It was not ladylike. For boys, crying incurred much social disapproval but not so much for girls. Fighting in general was discouraged. Never start a fight was the mantra though it was also "if someone else starts it, you finish it." but that was for boys. Boxing was not a popular sport. My taking martial arts was unusual actually. Boys played football, Basketball, wrestling (contact sports). Girls had gymnastics, softball, volleyball and cheerleading (non-contact sports)

This is true, but if you are poorly designed, you will never reach power on your own. Design trumps power. Octavian is designed to handle a variety of situations, yet is still skilled in his specific specialty. I can make a character that is mega powerful, yet will never grow quite right and is useless outside of his field of specialty.

And having a wider variety of formulaic spells does equate to more powerful. Formula spells trump sponts any day.

I understand. It is just that I think RL was a bit different than a few of you suspect. It is a research project for the future :smiley: