Table Talk (OOC)

Suggest a new "calendar" thread with a wiki-style post?

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Ha ha ha marcus' clingy wierdo heart breaking :slight_smile:

So SGs will be posting stories on the calendar, should we post character plans there too, or post them here and when an SG takes it on they post in calendar?

Have we, as players, decided what tribunal we want?

Wolfgang is going to start writing letters, but not going to work on gathering official sponsors until the magi have ruled out Alps and Normandy as options (which means we need to decide).

P.S. Is it Regulus, or @RafaelB who's pushing for Normandy? It's not equivalent to the others, we have more vis issues in that Tribunal.

That's up to you folks.

I haven't seem any decision being taken yet.

Rafael leans slightly towards Normandy (because I'm a Tytalus at heart). Regulus is going to accept what he can, but from what he knows he thinks Normandy is a better fit for his plans.

But I do believe we have good chances of keeping most (not all) of the vis sources if we chose Normandy. We would need some political support from the Tribunal (achievable through several means, including one of the other three Heirs), and if a few sources are hard to collect, all the better for us (we only need to disclose the existence of sources, not the means to harvest; if it's hard to do it's first come, first serve essentially, but we have the advantage because we already know how to harvest).

Normandy also has a few boons. If we end up having covenant lieges or vassals this helps us to protect our interests. Interaction with mundanes is a bit more lax there. The Library of the Tribunal is huge and we don't have to give a single pawn to Durenmar. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

This means we can't even claim those, just try to get them voted as legacy and likely fail.

Otherwise they're owned by the tribunal and become tournament prizes.

Actually, it means that half of the covenant's sources are probably safe, while the other half is probably scattered between the three Tribunals. Those withing the Normandy border may be at risk from that Tribunal's rules, but those in the other two Tribunals are subject to the rules and customs of those Tribunals (for good or ill).

Sources located in the Alps and the Rhine would not even need to be declared in Normandy...

But if the covenant is in a tribunal, doesn't it have to abide by the tribunal's rules for claiming vis? I don't think you can be a Normandy covenant and claim a source under Rhine rules.

And if you're not legally claiming it it's impossible to say you're not plundering.

Whatever Tribunal we chose the sources are going to be contested. I don't really see things changing much if we pick Rhine instead of Normandy, Normandy will still say we are plundering (and worse, someone will try to put another covenant in our doorstep).

If anything, choosing Normandy and declaring "sorry, this one source is just too difficult for you to harvest" is actually a very safe move (in my view, and assuming it could be a luctatione; maybe it isn't).

And the Heirs don't want us to lose the sources. Eduardus (the Heir from Normandy) is likely to support us.

This depends on how Arthur will want to deal with this. From my personal understanding of the code, this is a very huge gray area. The Tribunal at most will see this as a luctatione (I think there is a precedent in the rulebook for such), but not plundering.

This is also kinda of a huge gray area also because Tribunal borders are not clearly defined on maps (or the Tribunal that we will join would already be determined). So, who is to say that a source is actually from Normandy just because it's half a mile to the west or north? This is very much a political debate from which we won't escape anyway.

I don't think that works at all. Either it's the covenant's source or it isn't, ease of harvesting is irrelevant.

  • If it's within 1 days march at autumn equinox, its a seisin (legally ours);
  • If we found it and it's still within 7 years of being reported it's a legacy (legally ours until next Tribunal);
    • A legacy can be renewed; that's hard, but possible (I think it's unlikely, mentioning for completness).
  • If we conquered it at Tribunal it's a tropaeum (legally ours, but not sure we will get it);
  • If it's hard to harvest (for any reason) it becomes a luctatione: first come, first serve. We would only need to be better than the other covenants.

Yes, vis sources will be a political mess no matter what you choose.

The issue is really: Which set of Tribunal rules do you feel like playing with? Do any of you feel like organizing Tourney events or raiding stories in Normandy? Do you want to play political stories in the Rhine? Navigate the Greater Alps isolationist stance?

I dont know much about the Greater Alps. What sort of stories and games would it create? Isolationism does not seem an active thing to play with.

Tourney events sound fun, and raiding is probably something fun to play with. The political stories in the Rhine have a potential for a great time, but many political stories are exhausting to run, and we will hit the problem of our alpha st also being our ic leader, so we will end up with questions being asked of the gm for policy ic, which is awkward.

Ah, sorry, I missed the Luctatio. Though it's not up to us whether our sources get on that list, is it?

It's funny because I see Normandy as pretty political (but a different kind of politics than Rhine), and there is a lot of space in Rhine for an isolationist thing, geared towards the fae, and magical creatures for example (well, maybe not in our geographic position).

It kinda is? Not all the sources are defined yet (actually, only one is formally defined). If we decide to join Normandy, I propose we make it a Luctatio (i'ts more interesting). If Rhine, it's not (it becomes and argument against Normandy). Anyway it's going to be contested.

This below continues to be my view on the Tribunal matter. But really, I'm cool with any decision.

Politically they want to keep the status quo. The Tribunal is mostly old magi, the young ones are sent away right after Gauntlet. There has not been a new covenant for ages (but a chapter house is more common).

Domus Magna of two houses are here, Criamon and Jerbiton.

Lot's of mystical places (including, legends say, The Cave of Bonisagus).

In general I'd expect a lot of magical creatures and fae, with bits of politics here and there involving old magi. But this is my personal view.

The Redcap Project has a summary that can also be useful. The Tribunal of the Greater Alps


EDIT: I see the Alps a bit as the ents in Lord of The Rings: elder beings full of wisdom, but can't agree to do anything actually useful. XD

But I do think it is a good place for a great saga, depending on our focus.

I see. In that case, we should say that Augustus reviews the sources and tells us that they will likely be Luctatio. We need an IC path to our OOC decision.

I hate to be the guy always asking for threads, but maybe a poll that allows us to multiple-vote? I don't know if the Ars fora can even do polls.

Part of this also depends on SG's. Who wants to run tribunal politics for each of the tribunals we're considering? I don't want to assume it's @Arthur if it's not. Though I don't think his PC being the princeps matters all that much.

Is the troupe ready to go with a vote on this subject? I can create a poll.

As I stated in the initial saga annoucement, most of the stories should be created and run by you all. I will try to limit myself to those troublesome situations created by the covenant's location. :smiling_imp:

So I won't run the tribunal meeting, but I may introduce a charge against Tugurium. I won't run most vis harvesting stories, but I may introduce one where someone from another Tribunal poached one of your sources.

I agree we should discuss things but we're going to start going in circles.

Does anyone know about Alps politics? I take it we're using the 4e tribunal book?