Table talk: OOC

WHich labs are empty and what are their flaws?

I know that Tatiana wants 3 seasons with the mentem book (gets her to score 8) and eventually 7 seasons with the rego summae (to get to rego 20 (+pussient))

I suspect that there is desire for some of her spells to be written into the library, just need to know which ones.

Tatiana will probably be taking over the casting of the Aegis once she learns it. Since once she has mastered it a couple levels, there will be no botch dice (flawless magic+cautious sorcerer)

Finally, anyone know arts and base level for spell that compels a person to tell teh truth and nothing but the truth (CrMe for creating compulsion or ReMe for forcing mind not to do something?). I prefer a rego variant personally since Tatiana is a rego Maga. (hmmm, I might need to find a merinita to initiate faerie magic and get the until duration)

Ladypheonix: Take a lab of size -1 and make up a flaw as you see fit for Tatiana and give it the free virtue of superior construction.

We take 4 seasons of study and lab work before the next story begin but I will open a thread for the council meeting that occurs just after you return from Kolberg. For now it is 2-3 days travel to Kolberg, depending on the weather.

Ardath: Please give me a few more details on the fairy stepmother conflict so that I have something to work on. I am looking forward to use some of the mechanics from the RoP:F book.

From the magistrate the magi finds the following loot:
• 5 pawns of Auram vis
• Summae Elementalist Air L 5 Q 8
• Summae Summoning L 6 Q 11
• Summae Controlling L 5 Q 12
• Initiation scrips for the following Hedge Elementalist virtues, Theurgical Summoning, Theurgical Controlling Theurgical Refining, Elementalist air.
• A Hedge elementalist laboratory (Much like a lab of a natural philosopher)

This loot is 8 scources of insight into Elementalist magic.

If no one minds, I would like to use the mentem Summae for 2 seasons (24 xp Me) and the Rego book for one (affinity makes it 15 xp).

for the lab:

Superior Contruction, Undecorated and then if possible: Greater Feature/Greater Focus summoning circle: for specialization: +1 Experimentation, +1 spells, +4 (+5 -1 for undecorated) rego

I am looking at the ME guidelines: imbue all a person's actions with one emotion: base 10. Add +1 concentration, +1 touch for the following:

ReMe 20: Spirit of Truthfulness
Range: touch, Dur: concentration, Target: Ind
Imbues the target with the desire to speak truthfully and seek for truth.
(base 10, +1 touch, +1 concentration

With 3 int, 18 rego, 6 Mentem, mt 5 (4+spec), 3 aura, +5 lab spec= 40, I could get us a truth spell for my 4th season. 2 xp exposure: 1 ME, 1 MT

Season 1
Write PEVI Spells Sap the Griffins Strength lvl 15 and Dreadful Bane of the Fae Lvl 10
Int 4 +MT (Perdo spec) 5+ Puissant Perdo 3 +Perdo 14 +Vim16(8 doubled) +3 Aura +3 inventive genius +3 similar spell (DEO) Total 51
2 Exposure XP in Magic Theory

Season 2
Write spell Corrosive aegis of the maga PeTe 25
(Base 5 +1 touch, +2 Sun,+2 Group)
Destroys any metal object touching the maga
Total Int 4 + MT 5 +Puissant Perdo 3 + Perdo 14 +Terram 3 + Inventive genius 3 + Aura 3 total 38. Then Experiment with Risk +3 (+3 risk +3 inventive genius +dice roll)
Roll on Experimental table is 7 for a total of 10
Discovery roll 7 +3 ten roll twice 15 xp in related ability and roll again Open to suggestions what related ability is enought xp to raise 1 art to next level (perdo)
The Dice roll for the experimental bonus
total 53 , enougth to invent the spell
2 exposure xp in MT

That was a good series of dice rolls to if Max wants to reroll it go ahead

Season 3
Learn Veil of Invisibility
Exposure 2 XP in Scribe

Season 4
Study Parma magica summae 12 xp
Exposure 2 xp in scribe

4 xp scribe
4 xp MT
Perdo to 15
12 Xp in Parma Magica
Sap the Griffins Strength PeVi 15
Dreadful Bane of the Fae PeVi 10
Veil of Invisibility PeIm20
Corrosive aegis of the maga PeTe 25
15 xp in related ability not MT and not an art as these have their own entries. Penetration?

I approve of the above mentioned labs and labwork. I will wait with Justus work depending on how the council meeting turns out.

Will have to work on advancement... T-T

There's something here:
I can't recall if I wrote more. There must be, since this is "In short", but I must go now

Sounds perfectly fine to me, although maybe this could be achieved with base 5.

I feel that maybe the target could get a kind of resistance roll, since he has the desire to speak the truth, but may know this is a bad idea (sometimes, we don't follow our emotions). Like, if someone knows his loved will be killed if he says the truth, he may lie, even if he loathes it.
I feel though that a target could "resist" the spell and lie, but, due to the spell's influence, have difficulty to lie finely, thus having his guile suffer a penalty.
Maybe we could base this on "vision of the infernal terrors"? With a reduced ease factor if you use the Base 5, and the penalty applying to Guile?
What do you think of it? Just random thoughts.

Also, I've got Wizard's Communion 20. You should learn it too. Someone else got it, IIRC, so this'll help with Aegis :smiley:

By write, you mean "learn", I suppose?

Related ability... There are not many related abilities... Destroying things, metal... Something forge-related, maybe, but this'd be utterly useless to you. So yes, penetration, or finesse.
As per the rolls, I trust you, lucky bastard :laughing: congrats! :smiley:

Tatiana has base casting total of 25 for ReVi, with aura, it is 28. So she can easily cast a level 25 aegis once she learns it. (with only 2 botch dice newly learned, 1 botch die after a season to master it).

I chose base 10 because I want all actions to be affected by it vs having resistance. Why should I weaken its reliability to save 5 from level of the spell. My casting total is 27 that level 20 is easy to get off even in dominion aura 2 (only need a 2 on the die with 0 botch even in dominion 3). He can't give a false answer but can refuse to answer, give partial truths and perhaps avoid the topic but what is said is truthful. This puts it on par with Posing the silent question which always gets the answer but only one question.

Hello gang

Between the 3rd of July and 12th of July will I be travelling to the strange realm of Cheltenham in the Stonehenge tribunal. During that visit I will have problem with writing anything so keep the discussion going in the council room. Perhaps you could toss a few ideas on what you wish to do with the covenant.


On the 9th-12th July I will be in London and also having problems keeping in touch

Well, coming up with another income source is a prime need since I don't know that I came in first year.

the fact that my character honors the old gods of Faerie (and the russian summer court) and is not christian means fairie stories are good (since someone else has fairie links too).

conflict with church could add something esp since the white christ's powers can impact my own.

We have to deal wtih the werewolves

Story dealing with the witches

I assume game will be slow until July 12th from today.

Obviously Max's idea of Novgorod is a little different from mine but Tatiana is from eastern most end of novgorod where the Volhkzy are most issue (if I remember correctly Thousand caves is hte eastern most). Still, am I not correct that the Rhine tribunal has been repeatedly trying to claim poland as rhine tribunal and jealously holding all of Pomeraina. I remember it as issue in several GRAND TRIBUNALS, their claims to annex and hold it and that a Novgorod trying to claim the source would cause problems. The document in question would have to go to GRAND tribunal, not Novgorod tribunal.

I am thinking that I would love Tatiana to take up certamen against Constania, mentem and then shift to corpus. Not sure how good her rego is but Tatiana is effectively 18.

Live with the differences the book you are referencing is 4th on Novograd and may well not be true (Max may not even have read it) . It always appeared to me that this covenant was in the marginal area between the two tribunals. Certianly IMV of hermetic law constantia would be well within her rights to go to the Novograd tribunal to act against us , we would then be well within our rights to tell her to get lost and go to the Rhine Tribunal . The matter would then be settle be either one of us losing a vote within our own tribunal, Quasatorial arbitration (maybe showing one of us is in the wrong), Violence raiding and feuding, or a vote in the Grand Tribunal , I am not sure when that is (1228 , but I cannot remember what year we are in it may be past or really soon) either way an older magus like Constantia from a more established covenant may have more allies or favours owed than us and so win. All of the above is of course story material

Tatania is weaker or equal to Mariella she would almost certainly be hammerred in a Certeman as Mariella was , constantia is IIRC around 40 years older than us so is most probably much more powerful. I just want an arcane connection to her so when the war comes I can kill her.

Mariella is stronger that Tatiana in some areas but you fought your certamen in Rego Corpus: That is a 6/6 for Mariella but 18/9 for Tatiana. I suspect if it was Perdo Vim, Mariella might have done a lot better.

Gett\ing arcane connection is easy. sneak into the covemamt some how and into her sanctum and grab a few hairs or piece of clothing and then fix it. If you are willing to break code, you can use peIm to do it easily when she is gone to harass and extort some other covenant.

As for living with the difference, why don't you speak ICly what is up with the other two covenants and your desires towards them in council rather than point to two threads that Tatiana doesn't know about or how resolution would be.

As for tribunal borders: 1063 at grand tribunal, Rhine tribunal tried to annex all of poland and the grand tribunal refused and set the current bounds. (It is mentioned in Guardians of the forest which is 5th edition book). Indeed, in my home (offline) saga, the characters are about to attend the 1060 tribunal where representatives are going to be selected for grand tribunal and that issue selected to move up.

Okay. Maybe I was not clear, and maybe I misreading you. I am under the (maybe false) impression that I bothered you.
That was surely not my intent.

I merely began thinking out loud and, then, suggested possibilities, based on both reflexion (you may feel an emotion, you won't necessarily obey it) and precedent (Emotion spells that allow a roll to resist the emotion's effects, like "Rising Ire" or "Vision of the infernal terrors" - which use the same guideline as your spell-).
It's just that, IMO (and, to some extand, the rules support this), although the magic isn't usually resisted (That's why InMe Posing the Silent Question works better, even setting aside the higher base: It picks the answer), there's a difference between, say, spells that give you an emotion, and spells that give you a compulsion. You certainly intended your spell to be of the latter kind, while, due to the base used (and precedent), I think it to be of the former kind.

This is certainly NOT a big deal (even if resisted, this'd be very hard: Look at Vision otIT), so no problem :wink:.

EDIT: In fact, it seems that what you're seeking is a weaker form of True Lineage's "The Penitent's Confession", which uses the base 20 "compulsion" guideline.

Yes to all stories ideas.
Note that "conflict with the church" can involve any adventure in a Dominion Area.
The witches are especially important.

Really, I can't remember, I should re-read the books, although I seem to recall the Rhine trying to extand east, yes.

And if you can clobber constantia, please, do! :wink:

Gotta go!!!!!

The whole Breaking the code thing is a bit of a problem for Mariella , it would be acting more like constantia which just is not Mariella's style (it may be sensible or practical hust not acceptable to Mariella)

IC Mariella stated all she needs to state on the subject. I linked to the threads as Tatiana may well have picked up most of that information in the year or so of oppertunity she has had to speak with other magi and covenfolk and it saved having to explain everything in a hugely long post (IIRC I did explain more first time I posted but that got eaten by the ether and I got bored)

My interpretation which may differ is that a tribunal consists of covenants and the areas around them, if a new covenant is built in an area then that throws the borders out , so an agreement in 1063 based on the locations of the existing covenants does not specifically prevent border changes as new covenants are built . I am not aware that tribunal boundaries are clearly drawn on a map , and have never used such in any of my other saga's in fact I remember several plot hooks based just on this fuzziness of boundaries.
Anyway its a story which may or may not follow up , I raise it because the last iteration of the story annoyed Mariella a lot so she is bringing it up

Keep in mind, I could possibly beat her in Rego since Tatiana is heavily focused specialist in Rego. I am nto sure I could beat her in other techniques.

Still Mentem is 7 and corpus is 9 so I have two good forms for certamen. I will be boosting both of those when I can.

I agree, a younger specialist may well be able to beat an older maga , in their speciality but they lack the flexibility if the older maga can pick something outside that speciality.
Mariella could possibly win a Pe Vi or PeCo contest with constantia as I beleive she is actually a CrIg IIRC my knoweldge of her properly but Constantia is unlikely to choose our strong combinations if she knows what they are, Tatiana may well be able to suprise her Mariella could not as she is a fellow flambeau from a well known line of followers of Apromor

As a matter of fact, Tatiana's spell is indeed a weaker form of True Lineage's "The Penitent's Confession", which uses the base 20 "compulsion" guideline. She isn't doing full on compulson to force things but more flavoring their actions with the emotion/action. They aren't telling all, they aren't volunteer information, they are just tending to be truthful in what they do say. Thus the lower base. If there was a copy of Penitent's Confession around, she could have and would have just learned that spell (it is only level 30 and she had a 40 lab total and would have had a +28 casting total)

Tatiana did have the arts to learn peering into the mortal Mind from the library if she wanted to get that. Rego is just more her style.

As I said, no big deal. This is not a game breaker, especially as, even if it followed the rules of "Visions of the Infernal Terrors", the difficulty would be such that most of the time, the target would tell the truth, with the other times lying badly due to the penalties (which would achieve a similar effect as saying nothing, as we'd know he'd be lying). The final differences are thus mostly cosmetic.
Too bad Tatiana is not the type to learn "Peering into the Mortal Mind". Bad girl! :laughing:

Btw, IIRC, tribunal boundaries are fixed, but may change over time, just as countries boundaries. I'd thus tend to go on your side for this, although I may be wrong.

To be constantia... The best probability would be for her to chose technique (If she chooses another than Rego, you'd still have 1/4 chance of her picking it) and you picking the form. But I don't recall if .you'd need to be the one initiating Certamen or not.

No real time, not even read the threads, trying to catch up...

You might be able to talk her into it but her first reaction is

  1. season to create spell to control someone to do something (rego)
  2. seaons to learn spell to read minds (intellego)

She is going to chose the Rego Every time. She might do the second later but rego is first.