Table Talk: The bag of what-not

[Arthur]

Interesting back-story. A pious Verditius magus -- nice internal conflict between Hubris and poverty/humility.

I'll note that we have two magi with concepts that touch on yours. We have Praxiteles, a Theban Jerbiton who does sculptures using magic (focused on Finesse and Rego Craft Magic) and has a townhouse in Koblenz. And we have Aedituus, a former monk and a follower of Criamon who seeks to develop ideas about the relationship between the Enigma and the Divine. They both have the Gentle Gift.

Both of them may have affinities with your magus, or this may result in some crowding of concepts. Not for me to say, but you may want to keep it in mind as you think of your character.

[Makarion]

@Arthur

Interesting back-story. A pious Verditius magus -- nice internal conflict between Hubris and poverty/humility.

I'll note that we have two magi with concepts that touch on yours. We have Praxiteles, a Theban Jerbiton who does sculptures using magic (focused on Finesse and Rego Craft Magic) and has a townhouse in Koblenz. And we have Aedituus, a former monk and a follower of Criamon who seeks to develop ideas about the relationship between the Enigma and the Divine. They both have the Gentle Gift.

Both of them may have affinities with your magus, or this may result in some crowding of concepts. Not for me to say, but you may want to keep it in mind as you think of your character.

You are making an excellent point there. Crowding the scene is not good for anyone and it would take the luster off some of those concepts. I will have my theoretical Waldensian take a virtual bow and save the concept for another day.

In the meantime, I have not yet had a clear idea for another mage that would fit the Covenant, but I do have one for a companion. It would also be fairly easy to introduce the character, I believe. And, given that Companions tend to be less central to the overall Covenant's story, it would hopefully leave room for a mage down the road, once I get to know the present characters a bit better.

Would people prefer to "vet" the character concept/build before introduction? I have a nice introductory story in mind that would work best if there's an element of surprise involved, but that would not be great hindrance.

Last but not least, do companions get their own allotment of build points to contribute to the covenant?

[Arthur]

@Makarion

@Arthur

Both of them may have affinities with your magus, or this may result in some crowding of concepts. Not for me to say, but you may want to keep it in mind as you think of your character.

You are making an excellent point there. Crowding the scene is not good for anyone and it would take the luster off some of those concepts. I will have my theoretical Waldensian take a virtual bow and save the concept for another day.

I may not have put enough emphasis on the first part, but I think that depending on how you'd build and play your Waldensian Verditius, this could actually result in a magus that'd have many things in common with those two magi. This can be quite positive, for it gives the magi some common ground for discussion.

Of course, if you prefer to drop the concept, that's up to you. I'd note that in a saga like this one, the magi will mostly operate independently from each other.

@Makarion

In the meantime, I have not yet had a clear idea for another mage that would fit the Covenant, but I do have one for a companion. It would also be fairly easy to introduce the character, I believe. And, given that Companions tend to be less central to the overall Covenant's story, it would hopefully leave room for a mage down the road, once I get to know the present characters a bit better.

Would people prefer to "vet" the character concept/build before introduction? I have a nice introductory story in mind that would work best if there's an element of surprise involved, but that would not be great hindrance.

A companion would be good. But I think that it would be better to "vet" the concept and review the character design process as a troupe. It avoids clashes later on, and I believe that all the participants are mature enough to be able to play their characters realistically regardless of their out-of-character knowledge of the companion.

@Makarion

Last but not least, do companions get their own allotment of build points to contribute to the covenant?

Nope, only magi got build points. Of course, companions may come with their own perks, but that's a matter of their design. Which is another reason for the troupe to have knowledge of the design process, IMO.

[Jonathan.Link]

FYI, I'm here, just really almost lurking.
I've been recovering from a storage array failure at work. Been super busy... Light at the end of the tunnel looks like might hit me this weekend.

[Makarion]

For my Companion, I was thinking of really stacking the "Faerie Upbringing" flaw and concept. I also hope to combine it with some topical supernatural abilities that lead to good story play. Here's the current list I had in mind. Let me know if you recognize the legends I am borrowing from .

Strong Faerie Blood (Sidhe), Wealthy (she knows secret stashes of silver ore in the Eifel hills), Warrior, Skinchanger (tied to a piece of jewelry as well as her malediction), Latent Magical Ability (always nice to have room for development), Second Sight (free from Strong Faerie Blood), Personal Vis Source (I know it's hermetic, but I was considering making it her hair that contains it - it seemed so appropriate, and it's a good bargaining chip).

Faerie Upbringing, Mentor (a faerie prince), Curse of Venus, Greater Malediction (she loses all supernatural powers when someone calls her name three times, and must flee from all non-faerie auras), Compassionate, Higher Purpose (chilvalric ideals, rather misunderstood).

As far as abilities goes, I wanted a nice mix of animal-related skills, survival skills, and some martial skills. Just a smattering of social abilities, and those are tied to her upbringing at a faerie court - she's thoroughly lost among humans in many ways. Not sure yet whether I want to take any ranks in boating .

First background sketch:

She was born of a virtuous knight and a mysterious lady he met while out hunting in the woods. They fell for eachother with inordinate haste and consumed their passion on the spot. A year and a day later, a small flock of swans landed in the manor house's pond. The knight's major domus ordered them investigated, since swans were hardly common and there seemed to be something odd afoot. All the swans had strange metal collars - perhaps gold! Greed struck and he ordered the collars removed from the necks of the swans. Six of the swans proceeded to transform into boys, remarkably looking like the old knight (funny how time flows in faerie realms), but the blacksmith that handled the torc on the seventh, female swan was clumsy and mangled the jewelry - the swan flew off when church bells began to ring for matins.
Now, many years later, this swan wanders the earth. Her brothers are long dead, and she'd like a home. Perhaps one with a nice little pond and no church bells, please.

[Makarion]

@Arthur

@Makarion

@Arthur

Both of them may have affinities with your magus, or this may result in some crowding of concepts. Not for me to say, but you may want to keep it in mind as you think of your character.

You are making an excellent point there. Crowding the scene is not good for anyone and it would take the luster off some of those concepts. I will have my theoretical Waldensian take a virtual bow and save the concept for another day.

I may not have put enough emphasis on the first part, but I think that depending on how you'd build and play your Waldensian Verditius, this could actually result in a magus that'd have many things in common with those two magi. This can be quite positive, for it gives the magi some common ground for discussion.

Of course, if you prefer to drop the concept, that's up to you. I'd note that in a saga like this one, the magi will mostly operate independently from each other.

Oh, I still like the idea of the Waldensian a lot. Kind of uneasy on how the rules will impact the character - there seems a great risk that outside of the character's specialty, he'll be nigh useless. Also, without Gentle Gift, it could be painful in a church environment. Mulling it over...

In the meantime, has anyone got any experience at all with the Holy Magic greater merit? It seems quite expensive for what you get, although I imagine that it's great for NPCs on their home turf. Not sure I want to build an NPC, though.

I'll keep poking at the idea and perhaps I find an angle that preserves the concept without crippling the incarnation.

[Arthur]

@Makarion

She was born of a virtuous knight and a mysterious lady he met while out hunting in the woods. They fell for eachother with inordinate haste and consumed their passion on the spot. A year and a day later, a small flock of swans landed in the manor house's pond. The knight's major domus ordered them investigated, since swans were hardly common and there seemed to be something odd afoot. All the swans had strange metal collars - perhaps gold! Greed struck and he ordered the collars removed from the necks of the swans. Six of the swans proceeded to transform into boys, remarkably looking like the old knight (funny how time flows in faerie realms), but the blacksmith that handled the torc on the seventh, female swan was clumsy and mangled the jewelry - the swan flew off when church bells began to ring for matins.
Now, many years later, this swan wanders the earth. Her brothers are long dead, and she'd like a home. Perhaps one with a nice little pond and no church bells, please.

Question: what would bring her in contact with the covenant?

Note: The proposed list of flaws may need to be adjusted, as the rules strongly suggest no more than 1 Story flaw, and no more than 2 Personality flaws (only one of which may be major). You'd also need a Social Status of some kind. Right now you have:

• 3 Personality Flaws: Faerie Upbringing, Compassionate, Higher Purpose
• 2 Story Flaws: Mentor, Curse of Venus

My guess as the inspiration for the story would be The Six Swans.

[Arthur]

@Makarion

Oh, I still like the idea of the Waldensian a lot. Kind of uneasy on how the rules will impact the character - there seems a great risk that outside of the character's specialty, he'll be nigh useless. Also, without Gentle Gift, it could be painful in a church environment. Mulling it over...

In the meantime, has anyone got any experience at all with the Holy Magic greater merit? It seems quite expensive for what you get, although I imagine that it's great for NPCs on their home turf. Not sure I want to build an NPC, though.

Indeed, not having the Gentle Gift would be difficult for such a character, although this difficulty can be part of the external conflict between his piety and the world (as opposed to the internal conflict between his piety and his Verditius hubris). Perhaps his venditore would also act as an agent that make it possible to get contracts working on murals for churches. I assume you were considering Craft: Paintings?

I'd have to re-read Holy Magic, as I'm not really familiar with it. Never got around to really reading The Divine -- too many mechanical bits for my taste at the time I purchased it.

[Makarion]

@Arthur

@Makarion

She was born of a virtuous knight and a mysterious lady he met while out hunting in the woods. They fell for eachother with inordinate haste and consumed their passion on the spot. A year and a day later, a small flock of swans landed in the manor house's pond. The knight's major domus ordered them investigated, since swans were hardly common and there seemed to be something odd afoot. All the swans had strange metal collars - perhaps gold! Greed struck and he ordered the collars removed from the necks of the swans. Six of the swans proceeded to transform into boys, remarkably looking like the old knight (funny how time flows in faerie realms), but the blacksmith that handled the torc on the seventh, female swan was clumsy and mangled the jewelry - the swan flew off when church bells began to ring for matins.
Now, many years later, this swan wanders the earth. Her brothers are long dead, and she'd like a home. Perhaps one with a nice little pond and no church bells, please.

Question: what would bring her in contact with the covenant?

Note: The proposed list of flaws may need to be adjusted, as the rules strongly suggest no more than 1 Story flaw, and no more than 2 Personality flaws (only one of which may be major). You'd also need a Social Status of some kind. Right now you have:

• 3 Personality Flaws: Faerie Upbringing, Compassionate, Higher Purpose
• 2 Story Flaws: Mentor, Curse of Venus

My guess as the inspiration for the story would be The Six Swans.

Yup! Part "Six Swans", part "Lohengrin", actually - hence the boating reference.

As far as the flaws and merits goes: I know. It's tough, though, to find non-physical flaws and merits for companions that don't run into these issues, since they cannot take so many of the others (hermetic and many of the others that require the Gift or similar). For social status I was actually thinking Wanderer - sorry it fell off the list.
Anyway, I can cut Mentor and Higher Purpose, I figure. I'll figure out some kind of alternative, or reduce the goodies list a little.

As far as getting into contact with the Covenant: probably works easiest on someone's travel. She is looking for a home that's tolerant, and at the same time she's likely to help travellers beset by mishap, especially if they look unarmed or outnumbered.

[Arthur]

@Makarion

As far as the flaws and merits goes: I know. It's tough, though, to find non-physical flaws and merits for companions that don't run into these issues, since they cannot take so many of the others (hermetic and many of the others that require the Gift or similar). For social status I was actually thinking Wanderer - sorry it fell off the list.
Anyway, I can cut Mentor and Higher Purpose, I figure. I'll figure out some kind of alternative, or reduce the goodies list a little.

As far as getting into contact with the Covenant: probably works easiest on someone's travel. She is looking for a home that's tolerant, and at the same time she's likely to help travellers beset by mishap, especially if they look unarmed or outnumbered.

Just occurred to me that we have a "Character creation discussion" thread that should be used for this discussion...

[Makarion]

@Arthur

@Makarion

Oh, I still like the idea of the Waldensian a lot. Kind of uneasy on how the rules will impact the character - there seems a great risk that outside of the character's specialty, he'll be nigh useless. Also, without Gentle Gift, it could be painful in a church environment. Mulling it over...

In the meantime, has anyone got any experience at all with the Holy Magic greater merit? It seems quite expensive for what you get, although I imagine that it's great for NPCs on their home turf. Not sure I want to build an NPC, though.

Indeed, not having the Gentle Gift would be difficult for such a character, although this difficulty can be part of the external conflict between his piety and the world (as opposed to the internal conflict between his piety and his Verditius hubris). Perhaps his venditore would also act as an agent that make it possible to get contracts working on murals for churches. I assume you were considering Craft: Paintings?

I'd have to re-read Holy Magic, as I'm not really familiar with it. Never got around to really reading The Divine -- too many mechanical bits for my taste at the time I purchased it.

I was indeed thinking of avoiding Gentle Gift for exactly that reason. And I was indeed thinking paintings, although craft: mosaics or even craft: leaded glass came to mind as well. Plenty of options for work on a church.

Holy Magic is very awkward. At a basic level, it's a major virtue that allows you to cast spells at a -15 (no voice or gestures possible, but full penalties), with a bad reputation (hedge wizard) and the inability to communicate with other hermetics (half benefits when learning from books) tossed in for free. There's some workarounds, but none of them are very easy and it all starts to sound like it's way mechanical as you pointed out. And even then, you'll end up with a magus that needs to work his magic on top of the alter to be almost useful. Just too much hindrance, I'm sad to say.
And don't get me started on the Priory of Saint Nerius! The way it's written, they are more heretical than the Waldensians ever were, and they get their own invested order? There's neat stuff in the book, but some of it....

Anyway, I may need to step down to a pious Verditious with less of the cool-but-awkward bits. I'm not giving up on the project quite yet, although this seems a particularly narrow road, so far.

[Archimedes (Peter DeCraene)]

Still here, but having trouble getting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard for anything but work lately ...

[Arthur]

@Archimedes

Still here, but having trouble getting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard for anything but work lately ...

As for myself, I've been having a bout of writer's block regarding Petronius' story. But I should be able to add a little more soon.

[Tellus]

That happens to us all

[Archimedes (Peter DeCraene)]

I need to add Epiphany to the wiki; I might have some time in the coming week. I was wondering how we want to handle the seasonal activity? Do we want to play out all the Council meetings, or just the Winter one where we distribute vis and discuss the next year's activities?

Perhaps we should all update the wiki with out activies for 1184.

[Arthur]

@Archimedes

I need to add Epiphany to the wiki; I might have some time in the coming week. I was wondering how we want to handle the seasonal activity? Do we want to play out all the Council meetings, or just the Winter one where we distribute vis and discuss the next year's activities?

Perhaps we should all update the wiki with out activies for 1184.

Agreed. Unless there is a conflict for some of the resources, I think we can safely say that those activities will happen as planned. Conflicts, if any arise, can be worked out with a small interaction between the magi involved.

I've updated the page to show all of Petronius' planned activities for 1184.

[Archimedes (Peter DeCraene)]

I've updated Aedituus' activities on the wiki. When working on refining his lab, I rolled an 8 + 2(Int) + 7(MT) = 17 to gain the Highly Organized virtue.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

Okay, I feel like an idiot for even having to ask this, but how do I get Morticia to show up on the Characters page of the wiki? It's got some funky query syntax thingie that makes no sense to me when I go to edit. I even practically cut-and-pasted Petronius's page to make Morticia's, and still nothing. What am I missing, besides the obvious?

[Arthur]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Okay, I feel like an idiot for even having to ask this, but how do I get Morticia to show up on the Characters page of the wiki? It's got some funky query syntax thingie that makes no sense to me when I go to edit. I even practically cut-and-pasted Petronius's page to make Morticia's, and still nothing. What am I missing, besides the obvious?

Fixed. It's a quirky behaviour of Referata, which forces us to save the page where the query is so that the new data shows up.

Note that I've changed Morticia's page slightly, changing the category of the page to "Maga" instead of "Magus". I've got a hierarchy set up and both are recognized as "Magi" in the query. This had nothing to do with the previous problem.

[Arthur]

@Jonathan.Link

((It also appears, that by the timing of events that Alips would be back with Petronius, so she'll make an apperance, too. ))

??? !!! No way!

(Ok, ok, that was just a mistype from Jonathan. Funny, though.)