Not saying there's no interest, just that it's doubtful any single magus would want to spend 4 or more seasons teaching Latin to Praxiteles. Petronius might be willing to do it for one season, because he wants to help him become better integrated into the covenant, but that's about all I can see him do. So you might have to spread the effort around more than a single magus, or a mix of magi and mundane teachers. Whereas your message made it look like you wanted to exchange seasons of teaching with a single magus, which I believe is overly optimistic.
A mundane teacher may not be too expensive, but finding one with a SQ of 17 might be difficult. I'd say that you can't know for sure the SQ of the teacher until you've spent a season learning from him, and that his actual stats would be semi-random. Spending some time looking for a great teacher (i.e. known to be great, at least) would help, but wouldn't guarantee a SQ of 17 -- just increase the chance of a higher SQ.
As for Eberhard -- yes, you could say that I'm "playing" him. But he's a grog-level character, so I'm not exclusive about him.
Well, I opened with exchanging seasons of teaching; it's a negotiation, half in and half out of character. I thought I was pretty clear that I didn't expect it all to come from one magus. In fact, I was explicit about that.
A season from Petronius, a season from Titus, and a couple of seasons of Eberhard teaching would get him to a score of 48, and with 2 xp of exposure, he's at 50, which is the score of 4. If Petronius wants something in exchange for a season of time, Praxiteles is willing to negotiate. Same for Titus. This still keeps Praxiteles teaching (or do something) for two seasons, and still costs him a total of 6 seasons of his time.
Leaving Teaching scores above 1 out of the mix, the maximum SQ achievable is 5 (Com)+1 (Teaching) +3 (Std) +6 (Single Student) +5 (Good Teacher bonus)=20
A decent teacher of advancing years is probably 2 (Com) + 6 (Teaching) +3 (Std) +6 (Single Student) for a total of 17. Praxiteles on his own "supplies" a SQ of 9, so Com+Teaching+Good Teacher only need to combine to an 8. That's not that far to go, when you think about it.
Yes, sorry about that. I reread your initial message a bit after posting and realized that, but didn't have a chance to correct my mistake. Day has been busy, but still, I should have read better!
How frequent are those Com +5 with Good Teacher again? I seem to remember a discussion about that not so long ago...
The odds I came up with were about 0.1% of the population of magi, for which I used the assumption that they would have slightly above-average Com scores (or at least no horrendous scores). So that's 1-in-1000 who would have the potential. That's just the potential to become a great teacher -- they still need to have the opportunity to become educated instead of simply becoming a farmer or a soldier. How many of those would become available as tutors, more specifically in Koblenz? I'd but the odds between 1-in-10,000 (at best) and 1-in-100,000 (more likely).
Of course, a high Teaching score can offset that (including Puissant Teaching), but it does not make a high-quality tutor easy to find. IMHO, anything above SQ 15 is quite hard to find.
(BTW, Good Teacher provides a +3 bonus to SQ, not +5.)
So such a tutor would be difficult to find. And they might not be available because they're simply snatched up by high nobles or the Church. Not impossible, but quite difficult I think. Maybe requires-a-story-difficult?
As I said, I'm not even getting close to that realm, of max stats for a teacher. Praxiteles starts with 9, as a single student. That needs Com + Teaching + Good Teacher needs to equal 8. That is not all that high, IMO.
Wasn't even thinking about Puissant or Affinity, really, but those are certainly possible.
BTW, that's when writing books, when teaching face to face it is +5
Again, I'm looking for a teacher, who on his own can teach a SQ of 8, or rather 11 when considering the standard +3, not counting the number of students. That certainly shouldn't be hard to find. I think you are protesting just a bit too much here.
Titus can be bartered with, certainly.
He's currently a bit insecure and trying to fit into this new covenant of his, so I doubt he would bring it up (atleast intentionally), but he's a decent enough teacher, and teaching others is actualy one of the things he wants to do.
Aargh! Again, I read that too quickly. I've been a bit rushed these days. Just ignore me!
Not really protesting, just too quick on the trigger.
Let's start anew. Here's what I think likely:
A reasonably competent teacher would have, IMHO, a Com of +2 and a score of about 4 in Teaching. That would give a SQ of 15 for a single student. You can probably find such a Latin tutor without too much trouble, even in Koblenz.
A superior teacher would have about the same Com and Teaching score, but also the Good Teacher virtue. This would give a SQ of 20 to a single student. There might be one such tutor in Koblenz, but it would probably be quite hard to obtain his services, particularly for multiple seasons.
An outstanding teacher would have Com +4, Good Teacher and a Teaching score of 7. For a SQ of 25 with a single student. I doubt there would be such a teacher in Koblenz, but if there is one it would be a story to secure his services.
The very best teacher that exists probably have Com +5, Good Teacher and a Teaching score of 9+2 (Puissant). For a SQ of 30 for a single student. There might be a handful of those in all of Europe, and it would probably take a multiple stories to locate and secure the services of one of those.
So yes, you are correct that finding a tutor that would give you a SQ of 17 is certainly not too hard.
I'd still say that you would need to desribe the circumstances on how you find him and secure his services. After all, Praxiteles also need some stories (even short ones) if you want to bring him to life!
But since Tellus mentions that Titus would be willing to teach, that may simply be a moot point.
Again, sorry for being too quick on those replies. It's been one of those weeks.
I think he means 3-4 seasons being taught (so 45-60 xp in Latin), and 3-4 seasons returning the favour.
I won't ignore you. I'll just let you know when I think you are wrong.
On a serious note, I think that SQ 15-17 is achievable, and it would appear you agree. I'm thinking perhaps a youngish teacher, inexperienced, but gifted. Com 2, Teaching 1, Good Teacher, for a total SQ of 17 with a single student. Maybe he's a semi-recurring character, and this is where we become his benefactors...
Agreed, direct teaching for a SQ of 15-17 is achievable. I will be interested in seeing what actions Praxiteles takes to locate and secure the services of such a teacher.
Will he still investigate the trading of services with the other magi first?
The effect is a bit dicey as currently described. I understand that the goal is to have an effect similar to The Shrouded Glen, but more localized. However, there are a few points in which the effect described varies from Shrouded Glen.
I am a bit wary of how the Range and Target are defined. As mentioned in the thread, R:Voice doesn't really work here, as the item has no voice.
Then there is the matter of the Target. What is being affected here? It's basically the people who look at the blanket and whatever it covers. Meaning that those affected by the item can change all the time. This works for The Shrouded Glen because those affected come into the area protected by the ritual, but in the case of the blanket the effect would be "projected out" to anyone looking at it. That is much less straightforward and, as mentioned, smacks of sensory magic (which requires a Mystery Cult virtue --serf's parma).
So I'm not convinced this effect would work as described under standard Hermetic magic.
I was thinking that T: Room would cover anything entering the room that the blanket is in. T:Group mentions only those individuals in the original group are affected, but T:Room holds no such limitation. Maybe making it have unlimited uses per day, with the trigger that something is wrapped in the blanket, so any newcomers to the room would also be affected?
Indeed. And I'm not even a huge fan of the Shrouded Glen (in this edition)
That is a general problem for devices with R: Voice - an all too common thing.
Exactly. Ths desgn goes off of Aura of Inconseqence (HoH: TL, p. 73 - which makes no sense as written.
Arthur appears to have a better graps of the mechanics of a target than the author of the Guernicus chapter had (at the time).
Indeed it does smack of Sensory Magics, which require a mystery virtue and explicitly cannot be used in devices.
It doesn't. Then someone will invoke the rule of "non-standard parameters" and I will want to cry, because 1) Too abuseable and 2) 90% of people invoking it haven't read the full rule on that.
Can you find me the actual quote for that? Because as far as I can tell, that's just a convenient assumption. Devices with R: Voice should (AFAICT) be able to make a sound.
But then, this sparked off a rather interesting discussion in parts of my home group, about how items actually work.
Because some items seems designed to let the user cast an effect, rather than activating the device, letting the device cast the effect, and while in most cases that doesn't matter, there are situations where it really does.
The problem with T:Room is that it won't work if you are not in a room. By definition, the space "must be enclosed and have definite boundaries. A courtyard would often count, a valley would not."
It would also still mean that anyone looking in from outside of the boundaries (through the door or a window) would be unaffected. They would notice the blanket, and even more important, notice that other people in the room are ignoring it.
ArM5 p.112, under Voice: "Magic items use the wielder's voice; independent items need to be given a voice (CrIm) to use this range."
Of course, since the proposed item has constant use, it is not really activated by the wielder. From what I understand, it affects everyone around it without needing someone to activate it.
But then, if it uses T:Room, then why would it also need R:Voice? It is affecting the room it is in, not a distant room.
Anyway, I feel like this item would work much better if it used PeIm (or MuIm) to change the appearance of the covered object. With perhaps an Intellego requisite and some trickiness magnitude(s) to sense an appropriate appearance based on its surroundings. You would end up with an elven cloak, Lord of the Rings-style.
Yeah, for some stupid reason they put it in the Spells section under Range, and not in the Magic Items section in the Laboratory chapter. shrug It took me forever to find it, too.
My then-troupe found that the index was excellent! You could find a page reference in the index, and be (almost) certain that the reference you needed was within 10 pages of that indicated. Probably.
White Wolf actually hired an editor not long after that.
