Table Talk

For the moment :

Erse is the native tongue at the covenant. If you want particulars, It's Ulster Dialect. Munster Dialect is just across the border to the South. Some Norman French is spoken, namely on the marches, and some english.

Anyone speaking Erse can understand Scots (the penalty for related language applies). Likewise, vice-versa.

General languages for countries will be used until we actually venture into foreign lands, where I'll consider regions and Dialects then.


That certainly works for now. Be it the covenant tongue or the national of all Eire, Daggin speaks not a word. :wink:

(Predictably...) No rush, but could we get a sketch map of the covenant? Nothing fancy, just to get a better feel for our surroundings, when we are outside/inside, when we need to walk down a hallway vs outside to a diff building to get somewhere, any multiple stories (are the groups of 3 labs "above" each other in towers or on the same floor?), etc etc, thnx.

I like the prospects for the Saga, btw. Good characters, good writing, and even the quieter characters are becoming strongly pictured. Go team! :smiley:

Labs are in seperate buildings. Think of three buildings sharing a common courtyard, with the courtyard open on one side.

I'll see what I can do for the quick sketch.



(And... Ooops. I misposted in the story thread as CH rather than Daggin, and then since I couldn't delete it, I edited it to a fluff NPC "flavor" post once I realized what I had done. If you want to delete it, feel free.)

A brief description of the covenant layout:

Lough Caillte sits in a semi-circular bay roughly 200m across, which is open to the south. If the Gate everyone came in at is 6 O'clock, the stables are at 6:30, and the grog barracks are at 5:30. Guest Cottages are at 4:30, and there are a total of 6. Each is basically a bed, desk, a couple of chairs, chest (containing good wool blankets), armoire, and a fireplace, about 4.5m x 3m. A trundle bed is under the main bed. Sleeps 4 comfortably, 6 with crowding. The door can be barred, and a window (with real glass) looks out into the courtyard.

At 2:30 is the first cluster of labs. One resembles a foundry and forge, Torsten was an armorer by trade. Glendower's resembles a bunker, with deep set windows. Scorch marks on the outside walls near bronze covers indicate that he liked to experiment (sometimes with spectacular failures). Sylphie's lab looks more like a comfortable house with an extensive garden; It is also 2 stories, 1st floor larger than the second.

At 1 O'Clock is Angus' residence. This is a fairly large house, as befits his status. His three younger sons still live here, along with 2 daughters, and his wife. His office is off to one side of the house, where he can be found working on the books, or receiving mundane guests of importance.

At 12 O'Clock is the feasthall, the domain of Helga, the Cook. Some tall tales are told about her, who supposedly held off a pack of bandits with nothing but a skillet for a weapon (which hangs proudly in the kitchen, and it's HUGE) and a pot for a helmet. Helga definitely has some viking blood in her family, given her blonde hair, blue eyes, and warlike disposition. On top of that, she's an excellent cook. In the kitchen and scullery, her authority is supreme. The kitchen help are the typical mix of young lads and lasses, and the occasional custos on kitchen duty for some infraction of the rules.

At 11 O'Clock is the library and scriptorium. It has the most glass of any building here on the premises, to allow as much light inside as possible for reading. It is also gaurded; The 2 gaurds are kitted out in full scale, wearing tall, peaked helms, bearing a round shield blazoned Sable, an Elm tree Argent on a Hill Proper (Black, with a white elm tree on a green hill) They both have long swords, and medium length spears. Thier features are fine, and you are watched carefully by amber eyes, but they say nothing. They also won't allow you entry, so a tour of the library will have to wait...

At 10:30 is the vellum maker, whose journeyman tells you he can't spare the time to talk to you at the moment. Ink is also kept here (some of it locally made, some of it imported), along with some new-fangled stuff called "paper". It looks like it is only his workshop; many covenfolk live in the hamlet just outside the gate.

At 9 O'clock is the second set of labs; Diedre's looks like a cross between a country house and weapons test range, though the blast marks on the vitrified stone walls behind the lab are old (and probably permanently part of the wall). Kallias' Lab is a small, elegant place, with a small garden, a fountain, and what appears to be a ship's crow's nest on the roof. And then, there's Mab's. It is a collection of trees whose branches have been skillfully woven together to provide a weather proof shelter, and flowers and hedges abound. Miach typically naps just inside the door, when Mab is inside, and doesn't allow you more than a glimpse inside. There is no door, and you can see the interior is partitioned off by curtains.

At 8pm is a largish, squat and ugly stone building. The doors are made of Bronze, and are of good craftsmanship. There is also a big lock on those doors, and Angus has the key. They keep a fortune in Tin and Zinc in the building, he explains (Tin and Zinc are what are added to copper to make Bronze and Brass - Foundryman Steve).

At 7:30 is the stable smithy, where one of Liam's journeyman works to meet the covenants needs. At 7:15 is where some leather work is done. A large, low barn runs from there to the stables. Right now, it's mostly empty, though it appears there has been a scuffle of some sort in the last few days. Several children (and sometimes Mab) can be found playing in the pile of hay in the corner. There are a couple of wagons, in good repair, and what appears to be a chariot of some kind, made of wicker and leather.

The paths between buildings are set with cut stone, expertly set. There are a few trees, and the aforementioned pond with the lily pads (though none have begun to bloom), about which are set a few benches.

In general, there is very little iron used inside the covenant; Beyond the tools in Torsten's lab, it's Helga's skillet and the lock on the tin bunker. Everything else is bronze.

"And this concludes your tour of the covenant," says Tour guide Mab. "Thanks for coming, and we hope you visit again soon! Bye-bye!" :slight_smile:


What are some of the items that people would like to see invented? I'll put down a few ideas of things I'd like to see invented. Bear in mind, I'm not saying I can invent all of them (yet) but in time maybe.

  1. A lamp that provides a high healing bonus to everyone in the room.

  2. A figurine of a tower that can grow into a full sized watch tower at a command.

  3. A bag that can transport things from a store room to it from any distance (Bag of Holding, Ars style!).

  4. An anvil that can maintain, polish, clean, and mend armor and weapons that are in the same room with it

  5. A spell that keeps food preserved within a ring.

  6. A device that provides 'Eyes of the Cat' to the users.

  7. The 'secret weapon', a device meant to be used in case of a powerful demonic attack. It casts a high level Demon's Eternal Oblivion, at a huge Penetration. Since a spell that hits 55th level becomes a Ritual, an item is the best way to go.

  8. An item that can affect a Group of armor kits to make their Load considerably lighter.

  9. An item that can provide Edge of the Razor to a Group of weapons.

  10. Magic swords for all!

  1. A device which makes the mine tools a little more durable for the day.

  2. An arc of fiery ribbons ring for expeditions (20 pen, 24 uses).

  3. A Leap of Homecoming (group) item in case of emergencies on an expedition.

  4. Enchanted armour (a simple enchantment to provide defence against magic).

  5. Perdo Ignem device (20 pen) to help fight lab fires.

  6. Int Vim device for each lab to watch magic flows, give bonus to safety.

So, we've got a classic walled enclosure with all the lesser buildings tucked against the inside of the wall? And is there anything in the middle? (We met in the "Feast Hall", right?) No central keep, no councilroom?

Where is there room for the additional labs? (And is iron effectively "banned" (for obvious reasons) throughout the covenant, or only avoided in public areas?)


(We should check to see what the covenant's already got up its sleeves!)

1- Healing Lamp- That sounds like a big enchantment- possible variation? - a bed that provides similar to one subject?

2- Instant stone tower - For expeditions/traveling, something a bit less conspicuous, perhaps?  A low wooden/stone stronghouse, or other such?  A treefort?  Something that would not call so much attention to its use, and possibly be used to hide in as well as defend from.)

3- Bag of Connection- Handy!  
Similarly, something that could carry messages/small items back and forth.  Perhaps a hollow silver carrier-pigeon, or horn?

4- Anvil- nah, that's what grogs are for.   8) 

5- Preserve food- meh, depends on need.  Don't see it, myself.

6- Eyes of the Cats- handy for a number of purposes

7- Anti-Demon- (any reason we should expect one?...)  :open_mouth:  :laughing: 

8-10- Armor, Weapons- all nice.  (quantity over quality here, I'd say.  Better 5 grogs with +1 than one with +5.  And flexibility in which weapons are sharpened sounds better to me than a permanent weapon enchantment?)

11- Mine Tools- in the (late) iron age, this is better than it sounds!  However, we seem to be doing fine, and I bet the tools are not a huge problem as is?

12- blaster wand- always handy, but I wonder how excited the fae would be about such a fire-starter in the area?  Maybe something less volatile?

13- Leap Homecoming- even Individual or so, for medical/other emergencies.  Even nicer if it could t-port the user back again!  
(Krys- In this saga, do we need Req's to t-port carried items???)

14 - MR Armour- not often needed, but great when it is!  A definite "plus", but not sure how high on priority list this would fall. :confused:

15- PeIg - or any fire.  (Again, not sure how needed this is.)

16- InVi for all labs- hmmm- a bit personal for this magus, but thanks for the offer. :wink:

17- "Staff of the Traveller"- a device an Herbem mage of mine once built-  multi-purpose device that solves a number of problems for expeditions- a shelter/fort (as #2 above), a bridge, crteated defensive walls, acted as a tough personal hand weapon,  etc., etc.  Even had a very small constant "self-repairing" function!  (But this was back in 4th ed when items that only affected "self" were half cost, so...)

18- Magical traps/alarms/security devices to (further) protect the library or other key locations.  Imprisonment/incapacitation is probably preferable to lethality.  (Some very elegant and effective traps can be made very cheaply!  Ex - MuTe- Stone to Mud, Instantaneous, 1x/day.  A large, thick stone block, triggered when the middle area is stepped on.  Intruder becomes stuck to his shins in stone.  Hello.)

19- Group Flying item to help speed long distance travel for small groups. A large boat/very small ship?  A (gypsy?)wagon? Carpet?  (each has its dis/advantages when it lands.)

20- Item that helps produce glass items for labs.  Duplicates existing equipment, so we only need acquire one set of expensive lab gear, and can "clone" it for all.

21- Item for use in high-Domain (city) environments, that reads evil intentions nearby?  "Predatory thoughts toward user", or something?  Something to avoid the most common problems in towns, where magic is hard to use subtly.

Classic walled enclosure taking advantage of a natural feature for half the wall. Middle is open space, where the pond and trees are. There is no central keep, that you've found, or been told about. The formal council chambers are on the west side of the feast hall. Diedre's parlor at her lab is where most council meetings of late have been held.

With a 200m (660ft) diameter, there is some 628m of circumference, and the lab buildings take up a 6m x 15m foot print. Or, if you prefer, each degree at the wall is 1.7m (or, 5.8 ft).

There is plenty of room left for other structures within the wall, even allowing for 100 meters of empty space in the center for the pond & park. Trying to eliminate that will probably prompt Mab to do ... something ... about it.

Iron isn't forbidden or avoided within the walls; the covenant has more bronze, brass, tin, and zinc than it does iron. So pewter, brass, and bronze are the common metals of choice around the covenant.

As to what the covenant has, above and beyond what I've already laid out, is for you to decide. I'm waiting for you to get out the covenants book, and get to it! :slight_smile: (I thought I mentioned this in the e-mail relay...) What I've mentioned, doesn't have to be paid for with build points. Granted, you won't have the full amount for a summer covenant to play with either...When your done, you give me the numbers and stats, and I'll tweak 'em a bit.


Sounds like some great ideas for magic items.

A few things, the idea I had about the food preserver, is that would be where fresh food would be kept and locked up. Then you take the bag of connection (nice title) and poof, fresh food anywhere.

The Magic Armour that provides Magic Resistance, isn't possible. In True Lineages they show how to make one item that can provide MR, and it's a Breakthrough item with a lifespan. Besides I'd rather keep the Grogs non-resistant, just in case.

I like the idea of an item that can affect the arms and armor of masses of Grogs, rather than enchanting each (quantity over quality, exactly). That way we save time and vis, and we can give the item to the Captain, a wizard wouldn't even need to be there to activate. Finally, if all the Grogs have enchanted swords, our Parma would protect us if they start feeling froggy.

In general, I like having Target Group, or Room for items, to get better efficiency. Sometimes the increased Target might not even raise the Vis cost or if itd does, maybe just a pawn, hence the lamp could make any room into a hospital.

about the armour: yeah, I was thinking either a single lesser enchantment on each, or a spell that can be cast on a lot of them. It won't give the grog magic resistance, but the armour will have some. Come in handy when magic starts flying around. Though I might get my chara to do a run of lesser enchanted devices with a base level ReVi effect (i.e. MR of 2). As it's only a lvl 9 effect, it's a single pawn of Vim and can do a few in a season :wink:

About the covenant, I'm afraid I've only got the basic 5th Ed, not Covenants, so I'll leave most of it to you people to do.

About making glass stuff, in 4th Ed there were "resonances" which discouraged people from making lab equipment - is this still the case in 5th? Not seen any mention of it so far.....

Continue to make suggestions, though. :slight_smile:

I'd like everyone to have some input into what you get to play with. :slight_smile:


Rego Vim no longer provides magic resistance. They've made MR only available to Parma and Might. There's no way to provide MR without sharing your Parma or creating the amulet device I was mentioning, or making a Breakthrough.

Having said that you could make Wards that could protect against certain Forms maybe.

Rather than try to sift and back-sort thru various e-mails, could we get a separate OOC thread re "OOC Covenant Design", or something, so we can all discuss things there? For me, I find a single thread more useful than emails when several people are responding. And I don't have access to the Covenants book either, so any rules from that would have to be tossed out for all to see (and I have no idea how compatible the two are!) :confused:

That takes quite a load off the numbers to be spent, quite a sizable load! I've found that trying to design a covenant as a group can result in 1 of 2 things- either a "generic" covenant, where every aspect has been negotiated to moderation, or where only a very few players (or one) come up with the concept and rough numbers, and the rest nudge it slightly if need be.

Since we've already got more than the bare bones, I think(?) it will be easy enough to add in the misc left over (but I think I'll sketch out what we have already, so we have a rough(!) feel for what we have to play with.)

About what "Power" are we shooting for, here?

Ok, I'll start a Covenant Build Thread.

About Late Summer to Early Autumn.

I'll post more details in the "Build Your Covenant! Thread." :slight_smile:


And you can always "ward" against animals (magical and/or mundane), or men, or other certain types of unpleasantness.

You can also "Rego" against types of weapons and such. Lots of possibilities even tho' MR is no longer one of them.


The Rego Vim guidlines do allow for defenses against specific forms. So, for example, if a person is going up against a magus who has a thing for lightning, you ARE able to design a Rego Vim (and Rego Auram) device that defends against lightning spells. Defending agains all 10 forms is possible, but very expensive and would require the device(s) to be made by multib=ple specialists to achieve a high enough level and penetration.

You can cut costs by making them as lesser devices but then your grog would rattle with all the different devices he (or she) would have to carry.


Also, a relatively efficient way do do this for most applications is to creat a ring with three Rego Vim effects at high enough level and penetration:

Ward against Demons
Ward against Faeries
Ward against Magic

Range: Touch
Target: Individual
Duration: Sun (@ 2 uses per day with the sunset/sunrise trigger)

The guidlines allow for this and argues for a fair amount of effort for studying Vim. I don't know how Steve will play it (and I don't need to know) but warding against the Divine could be interesting given the Limit of the Divine and the power of "Miracles."


Against Miracles, the direct power of God, you have a parma of 0, and an equivalent form score of 0, while God has a penetration total of Infinity. In other words, If God wills it, no power on earth can stand against it. End of Discussion.

Powers that a creature fuels with it's divine might are a different story , and will be handled on a case by case basis. Not that you'll be fighting angels or their servants, mind. However, some of an angel's powers are completely natural (like the flaming sword), because that's how God created them. However, some aren't, and those can be resisted.

I would hazard a guess that the Order hasn't come up with a way to Ward the Divine, for any number of reasons, one of which might be to not provoke the wrath of the Church...


Warding against the Divine already occurs, the Parma and Aegis of the Hearth work fine against creatures with Divine Might. There's just nothing that can be done against Miracles.

With the amount of time, effort and Vis it would take to make decent wards against so many things, we run into the quantity and quality problem. First, they're harder to make, and second we'd have to make a decent amount of them. The Spontaneous defenses that a wizard can bring to bear is probably a better answer to those problems than trying to gird the Grogs against so many attacks.

However it's still a good idea to make some wards like that for the Covenant itself to use when outside the Aegis.