Talismans: Enchanting and Linked Triggers

I have a player making a talisman using some of the guidelines in Hermetic Projects. He is looking at Imprison at ghost in a Vessel... etc etc.

When effects have linked Triggers is this the ONLY trigger it can have? are there ways to have multiple triggers for one effect? How would you pay for that? a normal trigger is free, and the linked extra. I assume that the Linked destroys the normal trigger is there a way to buy it back?

As always thanks,

thanks

Why does providing a link destroy the normal trigger? I'd instead say that a magus can choose not to include a normal trigger if they want - which would be a bit silly if the effect didn't also have a linked trigger - but certainly doable.

For having multiple linked triggers, I'd make them pay for each one.

So if you have an effect that is able to be triggered by command (normal), when Effect A goes off (linked) or when Effect B goes off (also linked), you pay for two linked triggers on the one effect.

As an aside...

I would flat disallow any scenario which results in looping or recursive links. This quickly leads to your programmer players building logic circuits. Or at least require a very high Int+Artes Liberales(Logic) to reflect character awareness of the player's modern and likely professional knowledge of logic.

Wand of unlimited-use Pilum of Fire, with the effect having a linked trigger to itself. Applies PoF until target is invalid? This SG says No. :slight_smile:

haha... this would be awesome. If it happened, it would be a low crime... rules for logic in Arts and Academy?

However, Is an effect like an active instance of one thing?

Pilum is a Momentary effect... but Imprison a Ghost is a duration effect. does reactivating an effect cancel the previous instance of that effect?

For your pilum that could mean that it just sputters flame toward a target, but the new instance of the Effect cancels the previous keeping any of the effects (Pilums) from occuring. though you could have two linked pilums (R1: Pilum, trigger second pilum, R2 Pilum, trigger first pilum...)

of course that is only if something could have multiple triggers (which I generally agree might not be against the rules. but I don't think multiple copies of the same effect can be active at a time.

The the Imprison... if the previous instance was canceled, that would mean that any previously imprisoned ghost is released. If they are not individual instances then it could be recast over again until it is out of uses/day.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

J

Based on the guidelines for making a permanent effect, it is fairly reasonable to assume an effect that is activated back-to-back with itself has no break. There is a flaw (serf's parma) that makes items stutter, but I can't remember in which book or what it is called.

A&A has a chapter on logic, but I can't remember what is in it. I'm more thinking from the perspective of being a modern programmer who has studied philosophy in general and logic in particular - and logic is one of the original liberal arts. And given that my job often involves interacting with people who are artists (of various fields) and not logicians - I'm quite familiar with how tricky logic can be to the uninitiated.

I'd still flat disallow recursive/looping triggers. Partly because it gives a huge advantage to players who can do that kind of logic over those who can't, and partly because it can stall a game as the group argues over exactly how the cause-effect event chain unfolds. Fun for thought experiments on places like these forums, but likely to horribly mire a game in progress.

I don't see why you couldn't have multiple triggers for a single effect?
I'd certainly allow multiple triggers for the same effect, eg a box that turns everything made from plant or animal material into silken ropes, provided it is within the box.
Duration is constant effect, meaning Sun, triggered every time the sun rises or sets.
This would mean that a woolen cloak placed in the box would remain a woolen cloak until the next time the sun rises or sets.

But if the box is enchanted with 3+ uses/day, I certainly see no reaon why it could not also take eg a command word, thus turning the woolen cloak into a silken rope "out of turn" so to speak.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

I agree, there will be a Logic Ban on chained if/then or recurrent loops. Redirect my players ot Dwarf Fortress or Minecraft (which I think both have had logic based circuits created by players!)*** See below.

However, it does seem that reactivating the effect would cancel any on going effects. taking the "Box of Transmutation" from before:

Simple Example! (I think)

Would a 'Rod of Mental Command' (ReMe) usable 5 times a day (sun duration, no environmental triggers), allow you to control 5 people at the same time (until sunset/rise) or 5 people throughout the day as necessary, but when controlling one, the previous person ensorcelled is released.

*** just thinking about this... the Hermetic Projects book has some examples of logical circuits for the creation of a Living Corpse... without the Logic Circuits the magic would probably not work. It is a cascade of effects, that basically runs like this as one big effect:

Detect Ghost -> bind ghost -> raise corpse -> hand control of corpse spell to ghost -> Profit

Cascading isn't a problem. After all, a linked trigger essentially is a one-step cascde. Even an if/then isn't a problem, since that's essentially an In* effect triggering another effect. If/then/else gets trickier, and foreach(Target target in targets[]) {if InVi(target) CrIg.cast(target);} throws a 'SG Stare of Death' exception.

I would say that it would allow you to control up to five separate people at a time.