Teleport and Spell Levels Generally

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Ome of the Magi in my troupe as a fairly high Rego, albeit he's a relatively young Magus. He's chosen a teleport formulaic spell which only allows him to teleport 500m. By cutting down the distance the spell is sufficiently low enough that he cannot fail when casting it and will never suffer fatigue.

As a formulaic spell takes moments to caste, this means he can teleport pretty much wherever he wants very quickly, taking but a moment to survey the next part in the "jump".

This seems very powerful for a new magus and an easy way to reduce the level of an otherwise level 30 spell.

Am I missing something? On that score, should there really be spells besides minor spells, that a magus cannot fail at? Save when it's a stress situation obviously.

Thanks in advance.

2

A few things to consider...

A level 30 spell cast without fatigue for a starting magus means he specialized in this particular area. So yes, this means he is powerful in that area. You could have gotten the equivalent in a combat spell, meaning that the magus can kill most mundanes and many creatures with that spell. This is considered fairly "normal", from what I've seen.

There are limits to such specialized magi. Basically, if you want to challenge the character/player, you need to throw difficulties that he won't be able to solve using that spell. On the other hand, make sure to also put elements that will be solved using that spell -- you want the character/player to be able to use it to good effect. Just put enough different challenges before him that he will need to explore things outside of his specialty.

That being said, for this specific spell, there are a few things to keep in mind.

First, he can teleport 500 paces but he needs to see his destination. Any obstruction to his line of sight means he cannot get there directly. So ne teleportation directly into a building if he cannot se into it. Also, arrival in a safe position depends on Finesse, no matter the spell. Teleporting to a flat and safe surface idoes not require a check, but jumping into a tree so that he can see farther away means he must be precise in his teleportation, so an Ease Factor of 12 may be called for. Plus, even he at first sight the destination seems safe does not mean it really is.

Second, he usually does not fatigue himself -- but did you take negative aura into account? In a Divine 3 aura, the magus will be at -9 to his casting total, so he may have to rest between jumps if he's in a negative aura. In addition to that, even if there is no risk of fatigue, any foreign aura means there is a risk of botch... and teleportation botches can be deadly (make sure to warm him with non-deadly incidents). Now, has he tought about Casting Requisites for his equipment? He may be able not to fatigue himself with just a straight ReCo total, but what about his clothing (He or An)? Does he carry a dagger (Te)? Want to carry raw vis (Vi)?

Third, teleportation can be quite spectacular to a mundanes, so he probably has to be careful not to be seen to much, or he will quickly gain a reputation as a wizard. Even if he is not recognized, rumors and stories will start. This might draw the attention of other supernatural forces, in the Order or outside of it. And the Church. Draw too much attention, and the Quaesitores may begin to ask questions. He might get dragged before the Tribunal and fined a few pawns of raw vis for "endangering his sodales".

Now, with care and effort, all of these can be avoided or overcome by the character/player. But these are all opportunities to tell stories. The bottom line is: magi are powerful, even right from the start. But at the beginning they are specialized and have many weaknesses. Use those to tell stories, while allowing them the opportunity to use their powers.

3

If it is too powerful for your liking, you might be overlooking casting requisites, which will change the dynamic a bit. By RAW, requisites are necessary to transport the clothes and any other items carried. In one saga, because it fits better, I've ignored requisites for teleporting. In another saga we're starting up here on the board we're going to strictly enforce requisites.
Enforcing requisites are going to change the dynamic of transporting considerably. Clothes? You need Herbam and Animal scores of decent level, or both. Got metal objects, Terram. Liquid objects, need aquam. Vis, need vim. It makes teleporting much more challenging. And if his Rego score is high enough to overcome all those problems, well, he is extremely specialized, so focusing stories on things he can't handle easily because of that is how I'd structure things.

4

I like to use relaxed requisites on teleporting. I allow clothes, jewellery and maybe a sword to be carried without reqs, but a full suit of chain armour or anything like a backpack, sack or box would need a req.

Basically I've always played it that a teleport can carry the magus and his immediate clothing but it can't carry anything else unless you want to add some reqs.

Take in mind as well that carrying anything else that might be consider "not the mage" also requires a group target. i.e. mage carrying a small box with some gold bars in it requires terram, herbam and group target.

5

We actually like to be able to travel fast, it makes it easier to do a story a bit away. If the magus is the gossiping kind, he could find out a lot of rumours and take the rest for a hike. With requisites and group, it'll soon be a ritual, that would be silly.

6

I can only second the above. You can strictly enforce requisites, and you can draw stories from all that teleporting-about. But let the player enjoy his wizard's considerable power, that's what magi are for.

Now,

Well, he needs to cast the level 20 spell 78 times to get to seven leagues. This means 78 Finesse rolls, which may cause him to fail some. If these are stress rolls, it can really suck. Limiting the risk of botched teleportation or just a painful or uncomfortable one would probably be reason-enough for the Order-at-large to prefer the seven-leagues version. Traveling to the horizon in a single leap is just much more fun and safe than teleporting a short distance away, leap-frogging (and, much more often, falling or so on) across the landscape. The magus' way of travel still gets him to his destination swiftly, but it's just not as cool, easy, or safe. (If he became known for such practices, I might have NPCs amusingly call him "X the Frog", for all his jumping around.)

But yes, the magus can teleport repeatedly to cover longer distances. You might reasonably limit it somewhat by imposing a long term fatigue level, as per page 181 in the core rulebook ("Attempts to travel quickly cost one Long Term Fatigue Level per day..."). Even that would be nullified by magic items, that will invoke the power without fatiguing themselves. The bottom line is, this is a perfectly viable way to travel great distances very quickly.

7

These are casting requisites and do not add to the difficulty of the spell.
Base 35: R: Touch, D:Mom, T:Group is 45th level can increase it one more magnitude and it's still not a ritual spell.

8

On the other hand, since such spells are 6th magnitude or higher, they fall under the "powerful mytsical effect" and cause warping (ArM5, pp 167-168) to all but the magus himself. Not only people, but objects themselves can become warped if transported repeatedly.

9

Base 35 +1 touch +2 group is a lvl50 spell, I forgot the requisites were free, still not a ritual, but transporting more people is.

10

I agree with the general 'just run with it' vibe.

I wouldn't worry about botching unless the teleportation is being done in stressful circumstances. Formulaic spells can be cast with a simple die outside of stressful situations, so I'd save the botch conditions for when he's trying to escape something or is otherwise rushed or stressed. You can have a great deal of fun with teleportation (as a SG) in other ways.

Aside from the aforementioned requisites, etc. - remember also that the magus is going alone when he does this. Finesse and concentration rolls can be problematic, and he needs to be able to see his target. The latter can be an issue at night, in foul weather, in dense foliage or indoors. Furthermore, concentration rolls may be required depending on the environment - and most importantly the magus is going to arrive at his destination alone. Unless he has the Gentle Gift and some decent social skills (unlikely if he's that specialised), chances are he's going to be limited in what he can do once he arrives at his destination.

Teleporting without an arcane connection (by sight-based teleportation) may also require Area Lore rolls, or the magus could end up getting quite lost quite easily. If the magus in question doesn't also have an arcane connection teleport spell to get home, this getting lost may lead to the magus being out for a season (or more) as he attempts to find his way home on his own. Not easy for a Gifted individual without any grogs! Depending on your group, you could run a 'magus alone' story and bring in a few new grogs who the magus meets along the way, or just handle it off-camera so the rest of the troupe don't get bored. Virtues like Wilderness Sense or abilities like Survival may help, and lack of them could result in a bedraggled, sore, wounded magus stumbling home after a lost season, getting only 2xp exposure in Survival for his troubles.

The saga I'm playing in features quite a lot of magus teleportation - our Provencal covenant tends to have people pop to the Greek Isles or Africa two or three times a year; half our vis sources are months of travel from the covenant by mundane means. However, for reasons listed above the group tend to have someone do the journey on foot first - often sending a group of grogs/companions on an adventure to get to their destination who carry an arcane connection. This is a great opportunity to tell stories that don't involve magi, which can be great fun stories.

Teleportation opens up opportunities to tell stories in far-flung parts of Europe, and lets the covenant spread itself out a bit. House in Venice? Apartment in Rome? Office in Oxford? Not a problem, and a great source of more story fun.

11

I vastly prefer Base 35 +1 Touch, +0 Circle myself

12

Also note that if you intend not to spoil a season of research, you can get about 250 miles (considering horses to ride about double the speed of humans on longer stretches) and will have to double back immediately when using both seasons' 10 days. That's not really that far (but you could reach all of a tribunal from the center), takes half a year's time, and leaves no time for a story or any other activity.
If you teleport somewhere, you're there in a short while, all teleportation has at least some limitations (consider a rival following the grog collecting arcane connections, and gathering the surrounding dirt to make the teleportation go awry), and you have the whole world to travel to. For a troupe style game, this could also give each storyteller his own tribunal to base his stories in, and have less issues with interdependency.

13

[quote="Akril"
This seems very powerful for a new magus and an easy way to reduce the level of an otherwise level 30 spell.

Am I missing something? On that score, should there really be spells besides minor spells, that a magus cannot fail at? Save when it's a stress situation obviously.

Thanks in advance.[/quote]
I ruminated on this for a while, thinking how to answer this question specifically. IMO, I think you are missing something. There are multiple ways to build new magi such that they have 30th level spells and higher. There's nothing wrong with this, at all. Such a character is necessarily weak in many other areas and there are multiple ways to exploit this as a story guide. This is one of those abilities that by using it makes him potentially weaker, since he moves away from his source of support (grogs and companions and perhaps other magi).
As to the impact teleporting can have on a saga, I think you can see it laid out here by comments from others. If you want it low powered and want to keep the value of portals, Hermes and Mercere, then requiring requisites will be something to consider.

14

As it extends the effect of the spell when you are casting it, although the Magnitude would stay the same, would you not use the lowest form for the Casting Score.

So for example, my Magus in question as Rego+Corpus+Stamina of 21. His casting score is therefore as the spell's level is 20 (for 500 paces) he cannot fail. However, suppose his Terram were 2, his Rego+Terram+Stamina would be 18. Ok, he's still likely to succeed without fatigue but not necessarily. Have I understood this correctly?

15

That is correct, though you should also note that he'd probably use woolen and silk clothes, leather shoes and a bone or horn knife and buckles, so as to incur only one requisite (Usual would be Terram, Herbam and Animal, maybe Vim and Aquam, depending on what you carry with you).

Using felt and wool made of human hair, human leather for shoes and a nice thighbone as a club would keep it to Corpus.

16

This is possibly a silly question, but is a base 15 ReCo "move a person instantly 50 paces" actual teleportation, or does the magus need to move through the intervening space (albeit it too fast for anyone to notice).

If it is teleportation, then they can get in and out of locked rooms (or at least bars too tight to squeeze through). But no clothes or other non-Corpus gear.
If it moves through intervening space, then the moved person probably drags their clothes and any other non-encumbering item they have a very strong attachment to. And they can probably arrive at their destination in any orientation they choose - eg prone on the back to standing threateningly behind a potential victim (I would expect a very high Finesse roll needed).

Just for fun, I wonder if I can make a Magus with Mythic Blood who is descended from an Enchanter named Tim that is supposed to have accompanied King Arthur and his knights on the quest for the Holy Grail, in one obscure telling of the legend. The Mythic Blood inherent power is silent ReCo15 move 50 paces, and the focus is in creating bursts of flame :slight_smile:

Another question occurs to me. How does foreign auras and Aegis of the Hearth affect the inherent power of Mythic Blood?

17

Since it says instantly moves 50 paces, I'm thinking it means move from Point A to Point B without covering the intervening space, teleportation. Note the flavor text of the spell Wizard's Leap says that they must be able to see the location or have an Arcane Connection. A ReCo 15 is not a hard spell to cast, and if they know it they can miss the spell level by 9 and still cast the spell successfully, which means that they can probably carry most if not all of their belongings if they have a Rego score of at least 5.

callen's thread on the Aegis should enlighten.