"Of course killing them is a sin, but when th killers go through the ritual of perfection those sins will be shed, but each may only undergo the ritual once. Whatever this effect is we have only one soul, and nobody has an answer as to what it means with regards to the ritual Yes it would be better to have a perfecti here to answer our questions, but if we cannot do the ritual again and are being led anew into temptations due to our newfound youth, well we do not have the luxury of waiting for a perfecti. Some would rather risk dying now and hoping the ritual they do not remember still holds than risking being drawn into temptation and not being able to repeat it."
"So it is a matter of the temptations of youth. I think I can remove those. Would that suffice? No lust, no sin, hmm? How many people are we talking about here?"
"Lust is not the only sin, nor even the greatest sin. We are stuck in the world of the demiurge and to survive collectively sin is frequently inevitable. It is only the rituals of the perfecti which offer us a chance at salvation to escape the cycles of rebirth."
Lares furrows his brow.
"Wait, what. So sin is inevitable. The rituals of the perfecti absolve previous sins. After those rituals they do not sin - because they are old? - although sin is inevitable and all sorts of things are sinful. But now that they are rejuvenated they are likely to sin because they are young? Why is it now likelier that they will sin, if it's not just lust that you are worried about?"
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Plasmatoris idly rubs at his forehead with the back of his hand. "Hm. I have not spent the long time necessary to understand the philsophies your beliefs espouse, my friends and allies." The artistic man steps forwards, and to the side a bit, alongside Lares. "Our concerns are numerous, and hopefully concerns we can all alleviate. First, you are members of our covenant. We want you to thrive and succeed, along with other members of our covenant. Because of the current situation, I believe nobody can truly explain how we all came to the strange alliances we now hold - but these are the alliances we have, so I will hold confidence that we can make them work. No members of our covenant will be cast out without cause, because such a breach of trust will decay these necessary alliances."
Plasmatoris pauses, and stares off into the distance a moment. "I got off track again, didn't I?" he says. He sighs, and shakes his head. "We must find some way to assuage your spiritual worries without making the rest of Liberte vulnerable."
"The thing is that those among us who rejuvenated were not so old as the magi, and we have younger members who did not rejuvenate. In fact we do remember. We remember the promises you made to us back in France as we fled the inquisition. We remember the Berber compromise, the betrayal when you enlisted Arabs instead of providing education which you clearly have in plenty. Some of those who betrayed our trust have left the covenant before this event, and you may not follow in becoming the people you were before, but the only one of you who ever showed real interest in our beliefs was Silas, though Lares did learn enough to help build our relationships."
"I recognize that the covenant is burdened by past grievances, and that this rejuvenation has brought memory of them to the fore. We need to focus on resolving them, however. What is it that you request in this moment, concretely? Is it education? Is it the expulsion of the Arabs? I cannot promise we will grant requests without question or compromise, but I can promise that we will consider them. The person I am now has not yet inflicted any grievances upon you, as far as I can tell, and I hope to keep it that way. But you must tell me what you want, and then we must compromise."
"The biggest issue we currently face is our need for perfecti, clearly since for many of us this is more important than living."
"Do you know of any perfecti near here? I suspect we cannot get one from Europe soon enough to prevent these murders you are contemplating no matter what we do."
"To the best of our knowledge the nearest Cathars are in France, or maybe northern Spain."
"So we'll have to stick to the plan with respect to the perfecti, I suppose. It will take a while, though, and I would prefer to avoid this murdering business in the meantime."
Lares pauses to think.
"What if we imprison the former perfecti? Or put them to sleep? That would keep them from sinning, wouldn't it?"
"Sleep would be good. I suppose if you put them to sleep until we can find a new perfecti then gathering your vis will be a lesser sin than murder for our younger members to seek forgiveness for."
"Excellent. That should be manageable. You will have to take care of them for about a year, though, and I suspect they will be a bit worse for wear when they wake up. But it's still better than dying - or killing. How many former perfecti are there? We'll have to prepare an area for this."
(OOC: The way Lares plans on doing this is Call to Slumber base 4, range touch +1, duration ring +2, target circle = level 15. His total for ReMe is 3 sta + 7 mentem + 10 rego + 8 aura + 2 gestures = 30, so easy-peasy. Did I get this right?)
That will put them to sleep until the circle is broken, but it will not keep them alive with regards to thirst or starvation.
Yeah, I meant that the Cathars should feed, hydrate, and otherwise care for them.
Would adding CrCo reqs deal with the thirst/starvation? Based on keeping wounds from getting worse, but deprivation instead of wounds?
Ah, I've always thought that "breaking" the circle in this context means literally effacing it. So wards end if someone not affected by the ward stepped into the circle, on this interpretation? I can live with it.
That would mean he instead casts life-linked Call to Slumber base 4, range touch +1, duration moon +3, target group +2 = level 30. He would cast this version ceremonially, so his total would be 3 sta + 7 mentem + 10 rego + 8 aura + 2 gestures + 2 artes + 2 philo = 34 divided by two is 17. That means he would always take at least two fatigue, and sometimes four. This he needs to cast once a month for several seasons, but the Cathars can feed, hydrate etc. the sleepers without problems.
since it affects minds, any mind stepping across will affect it. One of the automatons could cross without breaking it, but would not have the skills to feed the unconscious people, which realistically would require the medicine ability (feeding people in their sleep is not trivial)
CrCo could not keep someone fed without expending vis, and even then it would be at best an experimental effect. ReCo base 15 includes "direct the flow of bodily energy" which could in principle slow their metabolism so they would need less food and water, though the existing example uses it to transfer fatigue from one person to another. Though Hibernation of the Slumbering Turb (from mystery cults) allows a re Me effect with a creo component to allow the subject to sleep without sustenance but awaken ravenously hungry with a CR requisite for what is already a ritual spell (the mystery aspect being that it is activated by touching the magus), so I would allow this if you cast the spell as a ritual, with a +1 for complexity and +1 for creo requisit.
What about the version to cast it directly at the group without requisites? Do we have anyone who would be capable of feeding them? I suppose there must be someone with some medicine ability, or it could be learned with practice.