45 BP The Bible Summa Theology lvl 10 Ql 3; Church Lore lvl 3 Ql 3 (in Classical Greek)
30 BP Physics Summa Philosphiae (Natural Philosophy) lvl 6 Ql 12 (Author Aristotle in Classical Greek)
23 BP Libri Almagesti Summa Artes Librares (astronomy) lvl 5 Ql 8 (Author Ptolemy in Classical Greek)
93 BP
This way we at last have some covenant copy of common book used in the school education. (I looked in A&A 136+ for suitable summa that where written in Classical Greek)
Edit: For The Bible I'm not sure if the calculation of adding both summa together is correct or if only the Theology summa count for the BP.
For Penetration, Finesse and Concentration I think it also would be good to have lvl 6 Ql 15 summa costing each 33 BP despite they probably cheaper to buy via MP.
Summa for Language, the different version of Theology, Teaching, House of Hermes Lore, Magic Theory and Holy Magic could be picked if we have BP left after buying Art summa.
(keep in mind for the Art Summa we might need 2 different version depending on how we go with the downside of Holy magic.)
So, pushing this forward, what would people think about this?
ENCHANTED ITEMS: 70 (only 175 levels of effects, which seems a bit low, but the points have to come from somewhere) VIS SOURCES: 250 (50 vis/year) VIS STOCKS: 20 (100 vis - low for Thebes) LIBRARY: 1200 (should get us a decent library) LAB TEXTS: 200 (1000 levels of spells) MONEY: 10 (100 MP - low for a covenant as wealthy as we are) SPECIALISTS: 0 (under protest) LABORATORIES: 250 (one basic guest lab of size 0, and five standard labs of size +2 for the magi)
I know we'd all love to have more of this or more of that. But even 2000 points only goes so far.
Some thoughts on library: Poenitens will be an excellent teacher, books on teaching are unnecessary. In addition, Poenitens will have written several tractatus on various magical topics. Trogdor's most recent version of Build Point distribution works.
I also find it strange to go with 0 point in specialist but if silveroak is so sure that created grog don't cost BP then why not.
(Personal I stay with the toolmaker as familiar so this is even covered without a free grog)
Paying for a +2 size as standard lab is great for my magus as it open up 40 points of the BP I expected to be spend
The income of 2 years as vis savings sound fine and enough for me.
So over all I'm ok with it.
That leads to a good question as to how many of our Art books will be Holy Magic books/lab texts. Obviously those books are much, much rarer and harder to get, and only benefit one magus. We might have a few, but I don't think they'll come close to matching the books on conventional Arts/spells.
Unless there is a other magus with Holy Magic I personal would be for the fair 1/5th split of the pure art books and lab text. Because Paulos is already at Holy Magic 8 I don't think there would be a summa that still can help him, so only if we spend quite some point in Magic Theory books then a Tractatus or 2 in Holy Magic would be good but otherwise it should be fine.
Edit: For Parma Magica I personal don't think there hermetic books and even less so Holy Magic variants.
Trogdor has set out a new thread to hold the items of the Covenant. How should we decide what they are? I propose each player come up with 100bp "lots" of lab texts, books, and items. We discuss a lot, and if we agree, Trogdor edits the post to include the lot. We repeat until done.
As an alternate way of deciding on what books we have, we could create a shell library to say what we want in general and fill it in based on debate. For example, we could say we want the library to ultimately look like this:
Of course, this leads to the debate of what Art and Ability should get what level book. We'll all likely have different ideas of what to prioritize. But at least this way we know we'll have a good distribution of books, instead of having five books that are 20/11 and no books that are in the low range.
For my part, I'd say that if we go with this paradigm Magic Theory ought to get the level 8 summa, Parma Magica and Artes Liberales ought to get level 6 summae, Finesse, Penetration, Theology, Philosophiae ought to get at least level 5 summae.
Yes, I'm fully aware that if we waited until the game started, we could buy the academic ability summea for cash instead of BP. But it goes against every fiber of my being to say that our late summer covenant has gotten this far without any academic summae, especially since we're associated with a school.
Sorry to say it but I'm complete against any books for Parma Magica as this is supposed the biggest secret of the Order of Hermes and so should be direct learned from a other magus instead of learned via books.
I'm with you that we should have some common books in the library that why I earlier pointed out some common summa given in A&A. I.e. we absolut should have the Bible at start despite it should be one of the most easy to get books later on.
I understand the opinion that no books on Parma Magica exist. We'll have to decide as a troupe whether we'll go with that interpretation.
Frankly, I think the whole idea that the secret of Parma Magica has been kept for all these centuries is pretty far fetched. You're telling me that there has never been a rogue magus who taught it to hedge magi? And you mean to say that the Order has been 100% effective in stamping out any leaks over all this time in a spread out order with medieval communication? I find that hard to believe. So, as I see it, from the suspension of disbelief that the secret has been kept, it's not that far a leap to suspend disbelief to say that they've managed to do so with books on the subject in existence.
But as I say, that's just my opinion, the decision on whether Parma Magica books exist is one to be made as a troupe.
Yes, the Parma Magica is one of the key reasons that the Order is the dominant magical tradition in Europe. However, many mages, especially ones focused on combat will want to maximize their talents. Teachers may not be available. I don't think that there is any prohibition on Parma Magica books. Every book owned by a Hermetic covenant is protected and cherished.
Ok but then our Parma Magica summa should be at most lvl 5.
I think we should have Finesse, Penetration and Concentration as lvl 6 summa as this ability work for all our mages similar well. (Especial Finesse and Concentration help us with our educated grog as well to let them use our magic items)
The lvl 8 Magic Theory is fine but then we probably should have at last one tractatus on Holy Magic.
Our problem with the table Trogodor put up start at latest when we want to pick books like The Bible or common Artes Liberales/Philosophiae books given in A&A as they not fit in. From a previous post:
Edit: the suggested books here are 7 BP short of 3x 35 BP so if we find a better Artes Liberales book and maybe have the Philosophiae book quality improved by 1-2 points it can fit in. Maybe both books where commented by a past magus and so the Artes Liberales have a Ql of 13 and the Philosophiae book have Ql 14.
In general I'm no fan of the lvl 6 Ql 17 books instead they should be just lvl 6 Ql 15 (the only reason I can think why someone want to pay for the 2 Ql more is because of book learner as 105 / 15 = exact 7 season and 105 / 17 = ~6.2 season)
So giving this some more thought and ignoring the table for now:
45 BP The Bible Summa Theology lvl 10 Ql 3; Church Lore lvl 3 Ql 3 (in Classical Greek)
33 BP Philosophiae lvl 6 Ql 15
33 BP Artes Liberales lvl 6 Ql 15
34 BP Parma Magica lvl 6 Ql 16
33 BP Finesse lvl 6 Ql 15
33 BP Penetration lvl 6 Ql 15
35 BP Magic Theory lvl 8 Ql 11
34 BP Concentration lvl 5 Ql 19
280 BP
(Yes I know I hate it my self that the Bible is actual a extrem expensive but pretty useless book and actual even break the rules of summa that can be bought with BP. Still given our thematic I think we should buy it)
Edit: On a slight different topic ... sad that Exceptional Book is a major boon or I would have taken it to lessen the burden my magus brings on the art library by taking a intellego (holy magic) phenomena what is part of our regio or on a sub regio of it.
I think your list is basically fine. My table was mostly meant as a starting point for debate. I wasn't married to any particular numbers for any of the books. Essentially, I had taken the library on p. 72 of the ArM core rule book for a powerful covenant and expanded on it. But if people would rather have different numbers for the books, I can work with that. Mostly I was posting the table to try and ensure that we had a good balance of books. Going 100 BP at a time would make it far too easy to have too much of one thing and not enough of another.
I also agree that even though it's a hugely inefficient book, for story purposes I don't know how we avoid having the Bible. I think we have to suck it up and buy a copy.
FWIW, on the margin, I'd prefer a PM book of level 6 and a Concentration book of level 5, but that's just a quibble.
Because half of the SQ is easier done with 20 then with 15 I prefer to keep the Parma Magic on the lvl 5. (Beside that 10 is still a good SQ for a summa while 7 already start to become mehh)