Only indirectly.
I thought as much
What do the rules indirectly say?
And what would be fair?
+1 mag adds +3 size.
What ironboundtome said.
If you want to be able to justify it, the corebook says that adding 5 levels multiply size by a factor of 10, and I think there are several ways to translate that into size modifiers. For example in RoP:F page 46 there is a table named "What Do Size Scores Represent?", which follows that guideline; size 0 is 100-225 lbs, size +3 is 1000-2250 lbs, size +6 is 5-10 1/2 tons...
I read up on Muto a while back, for a playtest. I'll see if I can find the notes still.
Spells from the core rulebook p118-9 - "Beast of outlandish size" increases by +1, "Beast of miniscule proportions" decreases by 2. On p131 "Preternatural growth and shrinking" allows you to add +1 or -2 to the size of a human body.
P154 "Object of increased size" allows you to double an inanimate object in each dimension and increases its weight 8 times.
The "Targets and sizes" box on p113 says "Adding one magnitude (five levels) to the spell multiplies the maximum size of its target by ten" - but that's the maximum size of the target, not necessarily the maximum effect of a Muto spell.
Therefore, going purely from the core book, I would read it as you can change an inanimate object by a factor of 8, with extra magnitudes yielding an extra factor of 8 each time, but animate targets would be by +1 or -2, with each extra magnitude doing the same again.
Looking at Magi Of Hermes - Gwidion has "Gigantic Growth" which uses +2 size to increase the size of a plant by a factor of 100. Hugh has "Assume the stature of the giants of eld" which adds +3 to the caster's normal size. Julia's Loom of Elfin Proportions has an extra magnitude to allow it to shrink by a factor of 1000 - which seems off to me. Lambert of Merinita's "Convenient Warehouse" shrinks any item placed within a chest to the size of a grain of wheat, with base 3 and +1 for excessive size change, allowing huge changes for just +1 magnitude - which again seems off to me.
Therefore, Gwidion and Hugh's spells suggest that allowing +3 to your size for 1 magnitude is acceptable for living things, according to Magi of Hermes. I don't know if other books have good examples of Hermetic Muto magic to change size.
+3 size for extra magnitude seems reasonable.
I think Corvus is about to find out how his swarm of cadaver crows works with bigger crows. I believe it’s going to be quite horrible, for enemies
Yeah, giant dead crows swarms sound even more nightmarish. But I think pretty much anything you put into that sentence instead of the word "giant" could do the same.
Like tiny! Imagine a swarm of millions of bee-sized crows sneaking through cracks, armor joints...
Ears, noses, eyes...
Thanks Christian. Now I am going to get nightmares with this.
They’re going to be poisonous as well
It sounds creepy, but game mechanics for swarms don’t support any special rules where extra tiny creatures ignore armour protection. Well IIRC the spiders from “The Spider’s Revenge” deliver poison if attack exceeds defense regardless of actual damage and soak.
But smaller ravens would mean a lot less damage, so unless also delivering poison they would be worse as smaller. Which is why I’m making them bigger. Also smaller ravens means the swarm of 1700 of them is smaller Size so Deere enemies can be a tracked.
I am genuinely sorry. It seems Corvus’ speciality yields horrifying results, I had not anticipated that.
Don't worry, I still like crows way too much to have more fear than love for these spells.
Two questions I just came up with: he doesn't know the Cloak of Black Feathers spell? I didn't see it on his grimoire. And being able to summon all these crows around that spell would be a wonderfully safe way of transport or defense, if he surrounds himself with a lot of crows (even if dead: spotting the alive one can be almost impossible). Or spells to turn people into crows, so he can then cast them crow spells?
Corvus does in fact not know Cloak of Black Feathers. And in hindsight he should. It’s a really good point about the defensive application of hiding as one crow among 1700 others.
As for turning people into crows, to be able to affect them, it won’t work well. A human physically shape changed retains human ontelliyso all of Corvus’ mental animal spells are useless.
It could work with physical spells though.
Another thing:
Can you increase the fighting ability of an animal? Basically it has a fixed value in general abilities like Brawl. But it’s not granting a magical power, like fire breathing. Nor is it increasing the animal’s Dex, which is hard.
It’s an unnatural change, so Muto, but is it “ major, unnatural change “ at base 15? This is in line with Steed of Vengeance, which gives “+5 to Attack and Damage rolls”. That’s “ Damage rolls” not the Dam stat, although this may be a leftover from previous editions where Damage was rolled separately. Otherwise don’t know when or why a horse would roll Damage.
The description of the spell explains the increased fighting ability by fangs and sharp hooves, rather than ability per se. However the purpose of the spell is IMHO to make the horse ignore the Gift. The rest is just bonus.
How much ability bonus should a base 15 yield?
Would a specific Form of the Temperament Heartbeast work? Base 5 T:Touch D: Conc/Diameter T:Ind. This is 15, T:G is 25, 1000 birds 35. For a measly +1 to Dex.
Hmm, the Unicorn in Faith and Flame has a Righteous Fury power, does not say "Non-Hermetic", +5 to all Attack and damage rolls, MuAn40, Base 25, +2 Sun +1 Size. So for crows, Base 15 might be 1 crow +3/+3, and the rest follows.
As a slight tangent, my home-game companion actually uses some of the tricks that were mentioned here - I'm keeping particular eye on this thread for fun ideas. My pirate-lord Companion has skinchanger/crow and Command Animals/Crows, and regularly uses crows as sacrificial soldiers to tear up sails and rigging, and uses clouds of crows as cover and as messengers and scouts. He has the advantage of not needing to design spells, since he just has mind-controlled minions.
The description says the bonus is due to “razor sharp hooves and alicorn” it sounds like an animal version of Edge of the Razor. So unnatural but not supernatural. It it also mentions “infused with the power of the Lordy” which is supernatural.
To make matters even less transparent the bonus is “ +5 to all Attack and Damage rolls” which is different than the bonus Edge of the Razor and the like gives, which is a bonus to Dam stat!
But if a MuAn base 25 will yield an Attack bonus, Corvus will go for that.
I’m thinking about some new spells. Corvus already developed a spell to grant a raven human-like Intelligence. But since he usually works in groups of 1700 birds at a time:
And would this work?
I see no reason not doing as non-Ritual and with a duration. That is, other than inflated spell levels and Warping. But this hardly matters for magically created birds.
But did I miss some reason that this is invalid?
Will the spells stack, like the rituals?
After the discussion about the effects of being effectively blinded on fighting ability:
I like this spell more and more
Hmm. I think whether this can be done requires a lot of troupe judgement. We would not allow it, as written.
Check out A&A pp.31&32. Basically, it tells you that animals have qualitatively the same "wits" as humans, but in animals memory and cognition (two of the five "wits") are far weaker.
According to A&A p 32 the way Mind of the Beast works is by "making a mind so consumed by one of the wits that reason does not get a way in". That's why it's MuMe.
On the other hand, to give a beast the mind of a man, you would need to significantly enhance its memory and cognition, which ought to be Creo (again, according to A&A).
Hmm.
I'd probably do it as follows. Forget Creo, the above notwithstanding. I'd look at the MuAn base 25 guideline(s) "Radically change an animal in an unnatural way (for example, give a horse wings). Give an animal a “magical” ability, such as the ability to breathe fire (requires a requisite for the ability)", and make the whole thing Base MuAn(Me)25, +1Circle +1Conc, for a final level of 35.
The only thing I would disallow is the one striked out. "Repeated castings are additive" only because the outcome of each is non-magical, so magic can "build" upon it. You cannot "stack" CrMe spells, like you cannot "stack" multiple instances of Purification of the Festering Wounds or Gift of the Bear's Fortitude.
I think it could work. But would obviously stop affecting any crow that left the circle. Or all crows the moment concentration dropped.
Nor is it a given that they would be able to interact with their "pre-intelligence" memories in a sensible manner, once sentient.
I have to give this one to ezze.
Note it's T:Circle, not D:Ring!