Interesting, Thanks!
Hmm.. I can't seem to find where a Sahir can call up a non djinn spirit. My understanding of Djinn is that they are all vaguely intelligent..
Does this mean that Suhhar Sahir's with Sihr (eh..) can't or at least SHOULDN'T bind djinn to magic items.
Is it me or is that a bit weird given there's a bunch of rules for that?
Not all djinn are muslims.
Binding a djinni into an item is a form of slavery, but islam does not prohibit the enslavement on non-muslims.
Much like christianity doesn't prohibit the slavery of non-christians.
Sihr can only summon jinn, true. Most sahirs have Sihr. However, many sahirs have other summoning arts, like (Spirit) Summoning from The Infernal. Most spirits are intelligent, and I think all jinn are, though I could be mistaken about that.
Members of the Suhhar promise not to bind intelligent spirits against their will, so they probably shouldn't. However, not all sahirs follow this directive. And it's perfectly okay to bind non-intelligent spirits, and most sahirs will probably look the other way if someone binds an infernal spirit...
As Erik says, the prohibition of the Suhhar is against binding any intelligent spirit, jinn or non-jinn due to the consequences the pre-Suhhar wazirs (Ummayad sorcerors/summoners) unleashed from enslaving jinn. The way I read this is that the Suhhar frown on greater bindings of jinn or other intelligent spirits (tCatC, pages 39-40) but that the superficial link created by lesser bindings is allowed, as is the khadim bond (tCatC, paged 41) which is more of a voluntary bond like a spirit familiar.
For example Elementals are not intelligent and can be summoned and imprisoned by elementalist members of the Suhhar who possess Solomonic Alchemy.
I would consider this prohibiton is observed to varying degrees - as Tellus points out in medieval Mythic Islam it is not permitted to enslave another Muslim, but it's OK to enslave a pagan and even a person who is considered as one of the "People of the Book" (Christians, Jews and probably depending on interpretations Zoroastrians and Sabians/Sabaeans but this gets a bit confusing). If they convert, they must be freed [//Edit:// as Jabir notes must is perhaps incorrect, perhaps "strongly encouraged to be a good Muslim" is a better assessment] - a good incentive to convert!
Most Faerie jinn are Muslims but Magic jinn and Infernal jinn are not, and dark Faerie jinn ie. "Impious jinn" and most quareen companion spirits are not Muslims. Also, there are pre-Muslim jinn who are pagan, Christian, Jewish etc. Some sahir may consider it OK to enslave / bind these non-Muslim jinn and provided they don't make an overt show of this or cause trouble for the Suhhar, their breach may be ignored just as minor infringements of the "Molesting the Fay" or "Interference with Mundanes" sections of the Peripheral Code may be overlooked in Hermetic circles. YMMW and it's up to the Troupe and/or Storyguide to decide. All these options and scenarios would make could story hooks or elements for a Saga, particularly one based in the Mythic Middle East.
Hermetic sahir would not consider themselves bound by these restrictions.
There are presumably many pre-existing greater bindings (or other forms of enslavement eg Goetic Binding, Faerie Bonding, jinn bound by Solomon or Divine magic etc) from the Ummayad and pre-Islamic era still in existence - possession of an item with one of these bindings may be frowned upon but may not be specifically prohibited. Possessing Alladin's lamp or a Bottle of Solomon may be OK.
Some other rules for binding jinn and remnants of Solomon's magic were dropped in the editing process but will likely appear in another supplement soon and/or in Sub Rosa.
Hopefully this clarifies things more.
Regards,
Lachie
There was actually no compulsion to free converts to Islam, although it was considered meritorious to do so. Among prominent Muslim slaves, the Mamluk slave soldiers stand out, along with their later Ottoman equivalents the Janissaries. Sahirs do seem a little out of step with their society in insisting on the right of liberty for djinn.
Only to clarify...
summoning spell what art need? Can be any Solomonic Art or simply Sihr or any Summoning ability?
As I read it, any summoning art should work...
Thanks, sorry by the double topyc-mancy.
Checking the total to the Example sahir is more clear...
One doubt more taht i can figure taht was asked and responded before... the new Wonders guidelines (not the erased on the Erratas of course), are only avaliables for Mazdean, Zoroastrian or modsen Characters?
Another question:
mariojpcsimon.blogspot.com/2013/ ... agica.html
mariojpcsimon.blogspot.com.es/20 ... agica.html
Im agoing to re-write or make on insert in this two things...
Since I finally started reading it, I have a question.
Page 38 says that "like hermetic labs, a sahir's work space must be a room protected from the elements with at least 500 cubic paces of space."
--- I stopped and was stun.
Refering to covenant, p110 says: size 0 is 500 square feet.
In our metric system , I always used:
1 pace = 1 meter
1 meter = 3 feet
So :
hermetic lab = 500 square feet = 500/9 m² Ok, that's a square with side of +- 7.5 meter.
But 500 cubic pace ... If we decide that height is 3 meters (which I find high but why not), that means a square of (500/3)^0.5meters (= 13 meters).
That's a lot more.
Is it a mistake or do sahirs really require bigger labs?
That could be. After all, they work with more help without problems. They can boost theirs totals with extra people.