The Cradle & The Crescent

The page is up here:

The Order of Suliman, Zorastrians, Jinn.

I hope that Erik Dahl has written an Order of Suliman that fits with my wants, rather than one that might, fit with what someone else wants. I suspect that someone's going to be displeased regardless of which way Mr. Dahl went.

Thats inevitable. But even in books or among rules that you most dislike, there´s still often ideas or pieces of rules that you´re happy with. All extra material is good. :wink:

I hope you like the sahirs too... I wish I could say more about them, but we all have to wait for September. Maybe David will let us tease a bit at the Grand Tribunal in August?

And hey, nothing stopping you from telling us a bit about your wants in this vein... :slight_smile:

If I describe what I want I'll fix it more firmly in my head and it will be more difficult for me to adjust my tastes to what eventually gets published.

But I noticed you said Sahirs that indicates to me that it's very likely that they'll be at least somewhat related to the Ex Miscellainia Sahirs in Societates. I'm good with that, and I see that there is also a credit for Mr. Hayes regarding Jinn so things are looking pretty good there.

Things look good to me because I'd very much like to see an order of Suliman with wizards at least as powerful as anything that was in Rivals. I believe that I've seen David write that it's OK to make exotics that are nearly as OoH magi in an area that OoH magi can perform. Making characters with an ability with regards to controlling spirits that rivals Hermetic magi who are focused on spirits is one way to make very powerful characters because a large library of spirits can mean a large variety of powers giving the Suliman magicians admirable flexibility. also having antagonists that work through proxies (spirits) gives the storyteller a great deal of room to have antagonists that spar with the PC's many times without having a resolution forced upon them.

Ooops it's too late for you now. If you haven't written the Order of Suliman as powerful spirit masters with remarkable flexibility as a product of their deep lore you'll be on my bad side for an indeterminate amount of time. Just remember that you brought it on yourself by inviting me to talk about my wants.

After reading Rival Magic, I would hope that the orde rof suleiman is markedly MORE powerful than the guys in "Hedge Magic 2". None of the traditions in the book seem to live to the standard of being a true danger to the order of hermes, really. They are more organized, and as an organization (like ANY other organization) can put problems to a single covenant or 2, but when it comes to power level we are talking high school sports teams compared to professionals.

After ranting, I look forward to see the sahirs, since they are one hell of cool magic users :slight_smile:


Very nice book...
My tremere who is elementalist will be waiting forward for it, specially, as she is in the Theban tribunal, she often goes around Persia, and also she has basics of non hermetic sahirs... I would be happy to know more.

At the risk of asking a question which may not be able to be answered:

Are Egypt and the Levant included? Or are we saving that for a putative book on the 5th Crusade and the Crusader kingdoms? I'm excited about this book either way, but I do love Egypt.

My guess is no, from the observation that the Levant (and a little bit about Egypt) was covered in the 4th edition tribunal book Blood and Sand by Niall Christie ( Niall is the lead author of The Cradle & the Crescent, so he might have been able to squeeze some references in. 8)

Hope so as well. I will really enjoy to have the Order of Suliman as a real antagonist group for the OoH in my Iberian tribunal saga

No, this book doesn't cover Egypt, or the Levant. That would just be too much ground; the book is bigger than normal anyway (which is why pages and price are still TBA).

The Sahirs are supposed to be comparable in power to Hermetic magi. Magi are supposed to be more powerful on balance, but not by much. The playtesters seemed to think we'd got it about right, but we won't really know until sahirs are used in lots of sagas. However, "serious rivals for the Order" was the intention.

Egypt got a little coverage in ToH:Rome.

I think Shannon's a brilliant writer, but the methods of research have moved on so much, and the setting jump from 1187 to 1220 has such reprecussions, that an Italian book could easily be done which is Just Better. You have the Papacy, the Holy Roman Emporer, his Crusade that he needed to apologise for because excommunicants liberating ther Holy Land is embarrasing, the rise of Venice, the rise of Florence, the necromancers of Naples and the lakes of Avernus, and then you get some Egypt as well. I mean, it's just all fun on the saga arc level. You could fill a whole book just with Sicily, frankly.

I mean, I know that its not a goer before 2016 or so...but seriously...we could rock several books set in Italy.

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Since David has spelled this out I think it's OK to say this is not ArM5 Blood & Sand.

Of course many of the elements from tCatC could be used for a Levantine Saga with some adaption, particularly if you have a copy of Blood & Sand (in print or now in PDF).

I think most of us have some elements left over after the final cut that we'd like to see used somehow.

I'd really like to see a revised Levant at some stage including Egypt... a separate take on North Africa from the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia all the way west to the Maghreb would be great fun as well.



I'm dancing a neat little jig here over this book - especially since Rivals was a touch disappointing (I also feel it was more of an Expansion Pack to Hedge Magic), though not that much since I still find the traditions interesting and potent on some level. Sahir being as powerful as Hermetics sounds positively delightful.

Will Raqis be making an appearance or were they chucked to the wayside?

What are the lands beyond exactly? I would guess portions of Islamic India and Central Asia, but not in too much detail in order to avoid stretching the scope of the book out too much.

I'd guess the "lands beyond" is mostly contained to the Silk Road chapter, perhaps the Zoroastrian section as well.

I hope that it contains the Roman Imperial trade ports in India. I doubt it will, but I have visions of a saga based there. In my own version of the history of the Order Trianoma was Chinese, and there were a group of Jerbitons who headed out toward China and didn't make it all the way, so I'd like something that's there.

That sounds like what might be described as a most excellent campaign notion. I myself have been spoiling to do a 'Journey to the East' style game for ages, but the lack of relevant information has led me to put it aside. I poke at it now and again but it's no where near ready. Depending on the information involving the Silk Road, this may be the spur I need.

Heh. I enjoyed your description of your wants for sahirs a great deal, thanks for sharing. I hope you are pleased with what you get later this year.

That is interesting... I just wasted half an hour on wikipedia reading up on that.

Cover's up! It's too small for me to make out what's happening, but it's still very pretty! Oooh and 192 pages of stuff - that's even bigger than I expected...