The Form Least Loved

A specialist is someone who could do quite a bit more with the form than invisibility. I have seen a lot of characters with Imaginem as a secondary or tertiary Form, that doesn't really count for the question asked.

I would have thought that being the form for "all the magic stuff" in a world of magical stuff would be enough for vim to not get any votes. There's also the 5 and 15 level ReVi guidelines "Control an Airy Spirit of a specific Realm" and "Summon an Airy Spirit of a specific Realm", who doesn't want to be the very best like no one ever was and fetch some general use spells from other forms but using Vim?

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see previous remark about Vim-specialist-as-ultimate-generalist:

sure it's probably possible, but also I hate it, and there's at least some case to be made that it really, really shouldn't be.

Also, given the existence of an entire Mystery built around summoning spirits to cast spells for you (Theurgy), I have no idea what those airy spirits are actually supposed to be useful for but I guarantee it's not "learn nine CreoRego Vim spells to outright replace the other nine Forms".

That’s a complete misunderstanding of Hermetic Theurgy. The spell spirit summoning spells use the exact same technique and form as the spells you want to duplicate.

Ah, my apologies, I had forgotten that it might be scorned for it's strength when specialized as well it's possible weakness when unspecialized, as a self-professed munchkin I could scarcely imagine such :grin:.

Oh, no, I understand Hermetic Theurgy perfectly well; I was referring (with the wrong arts; I should have said "nine Rego Vim spells", not Creo) to @Xazzel's suggestion of using the "airy spirit" guidelines to

fetch some general use spells from other forms but using Vim

which would be extremely problematic if allowed to work.

Animal, Aquam, and Auram are the least used ones by far for us. Maybe my group just hates the letter "A"...

Vim comes up a fair bit, but meta-magic almost never comes up. PeVi for dispelling and might damage is popular, and then In/ReVi for stuff to do with spirits. I think the latter very much depends on how "present" spirits are in your saga, if you know what I mean?

Summoning spell spirits to replicate other form spells (i.e. a discounted Hermetic Theurgy) isn't something we'd allow. I don't think it's even really practical because "summon an airy spirit of a specific realm" is level 15 and requires using an arcane connection. So the summoning alone will be minimum level 35 before adding a duration, and you have to penetrate the might of the spell spirit (which is equal to the spell level). Summoning a spirit to replicate "Pilum of Fire" this way for a day would have you casting a level 45 spell with 20 pen. Then another spell to command the spirit. Not impossible, but enough of a barrier that it's not unearned.

That's if non-theurgists can even learn the true names of spell spirits? Theurgists do it as part of the lab work for their mystery spell invention. I suppose you could summon less specific spirits with focus powers, but those are slow and would rapidly deplete the might of the spirit.

Anyway in our games it's usually used more for interacting with the spirits that are already present like elemental spirits of objects, the spirits of plants, Genii Loci, that sort of thing. If you want to "catch them all" you have to actually go out and find spirits in the wild, you can't just invent a spell to summon a spirit that fits your needs (unless you have the theurgy mysteries, that is).

Do you mean spell spirits? Those are not ReVi spells.

I believe, but it's a stretched guess, that this refers to the two guidelines Re(Fo) level 5 and 15, respectively, to control and summon an airy spirit.

They are found in TMRE p.28, and there applied to fire spirirts. The Titanoi chapter of HoH:S applies them to spirits of anger. The examples use, respectively, Mentem and Ignem, but a little aside on TMRE p.28 says that, if you are willing to be Realm-specific, then a single Vim spell can cover all the Forms (i.e. a single ReVi spell could summon any e.g. magic spirit you have a connection to).

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The problem is always going to be the Arcane Connection to summon a spirit. Hermetic Theurgy gets you that AC in the spell learning phase, normal Hermetic Magic does not (that's why spirits of emotions and ghosts are the easiest to summon, because you usually just need an emotional person or a grave to serve as an AC).

But given the warding and might stripping rules, Vim has long been the go-to art for dealing with supernatural creatures in general.

Hermetic theurgy allows you to summon spell/form spirits without having to find an AC. It does not teach you the true name or grant you another AC when you invent a Pact with Daimon ritual.