The ghost of Hypatia of Alexandria

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hello,

I've been wondering about the ghost of Hypatia of Alexandria, as presented in Ancient Magic pag.86

My issue is that I really hate what has happened to her and the consequences that she suffered in canon. And so I began to think to what could a motivated Hermetic Magus do to at least restore her mental sanity as a ghost.

There could be several goals to be pursued. A maga could just want to simply give her finally peace. Or she could want to have her as an advisor, or a teacher for the Mechanica of Heron.

I don't want to just strip her of her Might. That would be somewhat easy with a might stripping spell, but it would also be like yet another torture for an already tortured soul.

I'd say that, in her current state of madness, no peace is possible for her until everyone she blames for her death has paid the price for it. The church that condamned her, the scholars that abandoned her, the mob that killed her and so on. In practice, nothing would be enough for her.

I was therefore thinking about an Hermetic Ritual, or a series of rituals, designed to (simbolically?) restore the integrity of the ghost.

I am not aware of guidelines that could be suitable, so I'll just have my maga experiment with something like Original Research. I also know that, being a magic spirit, she is locked in the current state and she would be resisting the changes.

The first step would be to deal with the circumstances Hypatia's death. She died in a horrible way, and she is conscious of that. I'm thinking about two rituals that could deal with these first two issues.

The first one would be something like this one:

Incantation of the Spiritual Body Made Whole
CrMe 40
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind, Ritual
In analogy to Incantation of the Body Made Whole, this ritual heals all wounds that the spiritual body of a ghost manifests, restoring the spiritual body of a ghost to the true form she possessed while alive.
(Base 35, +1 Touch)

The second ritual would be something like this:

Drinking the Right Measure from the Lethe
PeMe 20
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind, Ritual
Named after the underworld Greek River of forgetfulness and oblivion, from which is said that everyone must drink when they cross the Threshold, this ritual erases from the spirit it is cast upon the memory of the circumstances of their death.
(Base 15, +1 Touch)

My questions now:

  1. Would these two rituals be enough to restore the sanity of Hypatia ?
  2. Would they be permanent ? (especially the first one)
  3. If the rituals were successful, do you think more vis than the technical requested for it would be required, to overcome the spirit Might (25 Mentem) and its resistance to change (RoP:M) ?

The rituals would of course have to penetrate Hypatia MR, I'm just assuming the caster will have sufficient Penetration for them.

After that, assuming that indeed is possible to restore Hypatia sanity, I am thinking that she could become a Haunt for the place she is.

If the maga wanted her to be finally at peace, what could Hypatia want to finally move on ?

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not relevant to your question directly, but I'll let you know what my players did when faced with the same horror.

They worked out that St Catherine is an inverted form of Hypatia (roles switched so now that the mob is not christian but the victim is), and that St Catherine never existed, it was just the church trying to tell stories to make itself look good (like they did with St Brigit of Ireland or St Thomas Cynocephalus from... who knows...?).

So they started writing and spreading tales and comissioning plays to spread the true tale of Hypatia. They were trying audaciously to try and merge the two stories, so that the magic ghost could draw sanity/comfort from the fae version.

The campaign is still running so they haven't found out if it has stuck yet.

Bob

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As an update for the thread, I developed the scenario and this is how it played out.

After an unsuccessful encounter, during which the maga had to run away and leave the Nightingale of Justinian under Hypatia control,
the maga devised a pair of experimental Charged Items and came back to the Serapeum.

  1. Water of the Blissful Lethe
    A phial of a swirling mercury-like silvery liquid. Pouring it over the incorporeal body of a ghost activates its effect.
    Blissful Ablution of the Lethe
    PeMe 55 +30 Pen.
    R: Touch, D: Moon, T: Ind.
    Named after the underworld Greek River of forgetfulness and oblivion, from which is said that everyone must drink when they cross the Threshold, this effeect erases from the spirit it is cast upon the memory of the circumstances of their death.
    Base 15, +1 Range Touch, +3 Duration Moon, +15 Level Penetration

  2. Spiritual Bandages
    A serie of linen bandages marked with symbols of healing, designed to be torn in half. Tearing the bandage activates the effect.
    Binding the Spiritual Wounds
    CrMe 75 +30 Pen.
    R: Voice, D: Moon, T: Ind.
    Similarly to what a Creo Corpus effect could do for a living human, this effect binds the wounds that a ghost would otherwise manifest, instilling while active a powerful conviction of healthiness in the targeted ghost.
    Base 35, +2 Range Vocal, +3 Duration Moon, +15 Level Penetration

After successfully activating in that order the charged items, while taking some wounds on herself due to Hypatia Death Agony power, the maga convinced Hypatia to follow her back to her laboratory, to try and stabilize the effects and make them permanent.

During the following years the maga produced a reserve of the charged items, and experimented with rituals based on them.

While stabilizing a discovery regarding the second effect the maga experienced a Twilight episode, from which she emerged with the knowledge of the Virtue Spirit Familiar.

After a few years, she produced these two experimental rituals:

Incantation of the Renewed Spirit
CrMe 40
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind, Ritual
In analogy to Incantation of the Body Made Whole, this ritual heals all wounds that the spiritual body of a ghost manifests, restoring the spiritual body of a ghost to the true form she possessed while alive.
(Base 35, +1 Touch)

Tap into the Oblivion of the Mouth of Lethe
PeMe 20
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind, Ritual
Named after the underworld Greek River of forgetfulness and oblivion, from which is said that everyone must drink when they cross the Threshold, this ritual erases from the spirit it is cast upon the memory of the circumstances of their death.
(Base 15, +1 Touch)

She proceeded then to celebrate them in Alexandria, on the anniversary of Hypatia's death, in the place where she's been murdered. She had to deal with the Dominion, but with the assistance of a friendly Fairie (The Magnificent Prince of The Lighthouse) she had been granted a Fairie Aura for the ritual.

She will then bind Hypatia as her Familiar.

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A pretty epic road, but surely rewarding.

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Major thread necro I know, but Iā€™m curious about further developments in you guysā€™ā€™ sagas regarding this, because Iā€™m having similar thoughts, albeit with a little bit of a twist.

My groupā€™s saga is set in the Levant, and we have one magus with a clear character goal to look into Heronā€™s mechanica. We also have an Egyptian necromancer, which seems relevant for a ghost in Alexandria. The thing is, the former is Muslim and the latter is pagan. With the backdrop of Frankish crusaders rampaging around the Holy Land, Iā€™m wondering if they, or perhaps a more radical NPC magus that gets word, might be inclined to try to ally with or weaponize Hypatiaā€™s ghost against the Christians, like, promise her vengeance or whatever, and how that might play out. Does this idea have promise, do you think? I am a very newbie storyguide and I am kind of looking for a sounding board here.

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Iā€™d say that your story has potential. The main issue, in my view, with Hypatia was her madness, and that was what I went out to address. The canonical Hypatia is a tortured ghost who despises monotheistic religions, first and foremost the Christian one, but any simbol of a monotheistic faith could, in my view, trigger her. You could definetely weaponize her against the Christians, but how would you control her ? It would be like setting fire in a wood, if sheā€™s left unchecked. If I remember correctly she also has the ability to bind/dominate other spirits (canonically), so everything could spiral out of control.

But, thatā€™s just my view and the way Iā€™ve chosen to interpret her story (thatā€™s why Iā€™ve gone with the goal of somehow restoring her).

In my saga, empathy has played a major role in restoring Hypatia sanity. The maga had choosen to share and take upon her a part of the pain and horror that Hypatia suffered, even before having her as a Familiar. Thatā€™s how she brought her back to sanity. By bringing onto herself that pain they shared the suffering and so became close one to another. Their love for knowledge then gave them a common ground on which to build their relation. Hypatia is no more confined to the knowledge she possessed while alive, and gained living knowledge instead.

In my subsequent solo plays/stories, she followed the maga in some of her adventures before accepting to bind with her as a Familiar. Iā€™ve left them some 30 years later at the Scholomance, where the maga has accepted a position as a tutor in exchange for a manufactured obstracism by the Tremere in the Theban Tribunal (in reality, the maga is keeping tabs deeply in the Tremere domain for the rest of the Theban Tribunal). Iā€™m not playing anymore, I just occasionally think of some evolution, but Iā€™m really stuck at building up a story for the Scholomance and the plots against House Tremere.

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Oh, I could absolutely see it going south in a hurry, a situation where they lose control. That could be a good angle. I donā€™t know if thatā€™s cooler than making her a more complex figure, but itā€™s definitely easier to do. I guess, assuming they found a way to calm her down like you did, I wasnā€™t sure how sheā€™d respond to a Muslim because they didnā€™t exist in her time. I was thinking she might be like, ā€œyou believe in what now?ā€ But youā€™re right, sheā€™s written with a lot of omnicidal school shooter kind of energy. Even making peaceful contact would be a challenge, and I think your magical solutions were good ones, but it seems like the kind of problem that there might be multiple ways to do. Maybe the players will do something novel and nifty, if they choose to engage with this the way I think they will (huge if, RPGs being what they are).

Anyways, I think your story is really cool. I saw this post like two years ago and Iā€™ve been thinking about it ever since. The concept of redeeming Hypatia seems a whole lot more interesting that just a ghost to blast on an adventure. I just never thought Iā€™d have the chance to do anything with the idea. Thank you for coming back and commenting!

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"The concept of redeeming Hypatia seems a whole lot more interesting that just a ghost to blast on an adventure." Quite. Hypatia once was a famous scholar in Alexandria and a guardian of its library. Getting her out of madness might be worth it for the PCs.
To finally achieve this, they could show Hypatia her legacy as a Christian saint and the mystic spouse of Christ, but more importantly as a guardian of neoplatonist thoughts avidly sought after by 13th century philosophers and theologists. Wouldn't instilling Alexandrian ideas into the 13th century academy be the apt retribution a philosopher could find against those uneducated Christian rioters who slaughtered her?

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Your point is valid, but I have an issue with the legacy as a Christian Saint and the mystic spouse of Christ.

I mean, yes of course she could accept that and act as a protector for scholars and as a guardian for neoplatonism. But, if you think about it, wouldnā€™t it be just another mockery for her ? She did not submit to Christianity in life, and she would be forced to accept it in death.

She died for her beliefs, would she be willing to renounce them in death ? I donā€™t know, maybe she could, but that doesnā€™t feel right for the character, in my personal view. Itā€™s kinda too late for a ā€œAnd yet it movesā€ moment like Galileo Galilei. Thatā€™s where my issue with the Saint Catherine approach lies. With that Christianity took both her life and her legacy, twisting and torturing here even more.

But, in the end, everything depends on how one would choose to portray her. Maybe she could also be viewed as a pragmatic one that says ā€œI donā€™t care, Iā€™m already dead. What matters are the ideas I fought forā€ and accept that route too.

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What has becoming a guardian for neoplatonism to do with submitting to Christianity?
Hypatia is a ghost now. In general Neoplatonists were not Christians when she lived, but some Christians like Theophilus and Synesius openly supported Hypatia. Now many scholarly Christians of the 13th century are Aristoteleans and/or Neoplatonists. So do they now see the light some dirty parabalani would have never understood?

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I donā€™t have issues about her becoming a guardian for neoplatonism, that has absolutely nothing to do with submitting to Christianity, and on the contrary i can see her very well fit the role. My comment was more about the legacy as a Christian Saint and the mystic spouse of Christ. There is where my issue lies, as I see it as submitting to Christianity.

But, as I said, she could just as well say something on the line of ā€œI donā€™t care anymore, Iā€™m a ghost, Iā€™m above thatā€.

Thereā€™s another point Iā€™d like to highlight though. Thereā€™s a big issue standing in the way of everything said: how to deal with a tortured soul hellbent to revenge against anything remotely connected to christianity (and not only that: even also against scholars in general).

Do you feel that the prospect of being the protector of neoplatonism would be enough to restore (the canonical) Hypatia to a different form of ghost ?

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" My comment was more about the legacy as a Christian Saint and the mystic spouse of Christ." AFAICS nobody here has Hypatia seriously adopting that role. Would she as a ghost stage appearances of Saint Catherine? That is another issue altogether.

Yep. That is another thing, which always kept me from touching AM p.86 Hypatia. The ghost described there is completely lost to her pain and her need for vengeance. As described, a magus could not restore her sanity any more: her intellect is gone, and destroying her pain and hatred would make her completely disappear.
But that is apparently not what @Eunoia looks for.

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There was a scenario (maybe in ā€˜Tales of Mythic Europeā€™?) with a infernal instrument that drove people to madness then killed them. The players have a chance to interact with a survivor, and the suggested route to relieving her madness is a Creo Mentam guideline. It seems like a Mentam specialist might be able to restrain & heal (at least a little) Hypatiaā€™s ghost.

Part of this might depend on how ghosts are handled in your saga; and ghosts of pagans might be different from ghosts of christians ā€“ because souls which go to heaven are inaccessible.

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The thing is that (historically) Hypatia had Christain friends, including the bishop of Alexandria until 412. It was when that Bishop died and his rather radical son took over the Christian church in Alexandria via a violent struggle and then had Hypatia murdered. Her intolerance of Christianity is either post-mortem or a construct of the Ars Magica author. Nobody was trying to force her conversion, she was well connected politically and opposed to Cyni, the new Bishop, and was murdered as a political move.

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Iā€™m also inclined to suspect that her intolerance for Christianity as portrayed in AM is a construct specific of Ars Magica, not something strictly historically correct. Not that I have any quarrel with that, I take it as just the way she is canonically represented in Ars Magica.

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During the age of Enlightenment she was used as a symbol of resistance against Catholicism (which formed after her death as an organization) and in the late 20th century her death was associated with the burning of the Library of Alexandria, which happened before she was born, so mythically speaking there is a whole lot of added baggage.

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I definitely have to look this up because I donā€™t think I recall this scenario. Thank you!!

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Found it! Tales of Mythic Europe p 118:

The characters could use Creo Mentem magic to try to
restore her mind, which requires a base Creo Mentem level
of 35 (equivalent to healing an Incapacitating Wound); for
the effect to be permanent the spell must be a ritual.

I believe that is for a person who is irrevocably mad.

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Not every ghost is a person. AM p.86 Hypatia is not described as a person any more.

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I donā€™t agree here with you when you say that AM p. 86 Hypatia is not described as a person any more.

She is described as a tortured person, with long hairs, a mutilated face, her skin hanging in strips, and wearing a bloodstained robe and sandals