The Gift

Well, its not entirely clear that a Tribunal can compel you to waive the protection of the Primary Code. Tribunal rulings are clearly inferior to Primary Code provisions. Now, the Tribunal could certainly refuse to prosecute a Quaesitor for the scrying charge, but that's a different issue.

Oh, and if a Quaesitor dares cast a scrying spell on me he better be extremely sure he has the political votes to cover his behind, because I'll be sure to bring a charge against him. And if he knows enough to be sure I'm actually going to be caught by his spell, he apparently has actual evidence that he ought to be relying on instead.

There are many ways to manipulate magical InMe results and most of those spells don't reveal the information to anyone except the Quaesitor, so it would just be his word about what he found with his magic. Frosty Breath reveals to everyone, but just being a good liar (okay, really good liar) is sufficient to defeat the spell, even without other magical protections.

A Quaesitor who needs InMe to make his case is just asking for trouble.

If you go round seriously upsetting fellow magi, and being reputed to commit highly dubious acts, and then the Qs invite you to expose your secrets before Tribunal, then obviously you have little desire to comply (and a legal right not to, perhaps.)

That is, until the well-connected enemies (and lack of friends) conspire to have Tribunal declare you Marched, and strip you of the rights of the Code...

IMO, the Qs use a lot of mundane investigations against magi, and a lot of working names - talking to people, and leaning on them, using influence. (IMS they kept a "black book" to magi who had transgressed in minor ways, that they could "persuade" to help them out... nothing illegal on either side).

Magic at Tribunal is mostly for show - Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie is said (even in core book) to be easily faked - so it's not trusted except in stage-managed circumstances where you can be abundantly certain by other spells that no other magic is involved.

IMO, the Qs use much more magic "in the field" - they cast investigative spells on evidence, "in case" it was demons or outsiders, or transgressors of the Code who caused the investigated effect (eg trace residues of magic). If a normal magus did too much of this, they'd soon hit a powerful magus who claimed they'd been spied on; but a Q can claim they were doing their job, and sorry about the accidental spying - here's a small reparation to make up.

A few more comments...

Technically The Gift allows the character to learn Supernatural abilities that are associated with the Realm of Magic without possessing the corresponding Virtue I wasn't sure if everything was completely clear in the previous posts.

Also, in HoH: TL it is suggested that Mercere may have sacrificed his Gift as part of a Mystery Ordeal. If this were true, it would provide another method to rid oneself of The Gift. More intriguingly, it also suggests that it might be possible to obtain The Gift through initiation into some forgotten Non-Hermetic Mystery.

The fact that Mercere was said to be a member of the Mercurian tradition makes the rumor even more exciting since it would explain how the Cult of Mercury obtained enough Gifted individuals for their Rituals. (assuming that their magic did, in fact, require Gifted practitioners...)

I had a bit of confusion regarding the False Power and Vengeful Power flaws... :blush: Given the context, however, making Infernal Pacts with demons is both a mortal sin and a major hermetic crime.

Furthermore, if The Gift were given to an unborn child by diabolical means, The Gift would disappear forever if the child ever received spiritual absolution. This means you've either doomed the kid to eternal torment or wasted whatever you traded the demon/diabolist for the favor.

The rules that you cited indicate that the arts the character uses in "Transformation of the Body" influences the faerie's final form. I don't see how that can interpreted to mean that the player, much less the character, has any control over what sort of faerie he/she becomes.

It's not so bad though, being immortal, you'll be glad for the gossamer wings and flower petal tunic when the Jacobean era rolls around!... :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously though, what's so bad about being a talking animal?

Sure, but for that to happen you either have a very corrupt Tribunal or they actually have evidence and the spells are just gravy.

I like how you characterize the situation. That's pretty much how it is IMS as well. Privacy rights, including protection from scrying, are one of the most vociferously defended Primary Code clauses. While many magi may want to "get" Annoyicus Maximus, they are generally even more inclined to block precedents that might let others breach their privacy later.

Oh, this is quite true. Pretty much any Supernatural Virtue can be granted by the appropriate Initiation. This is a very good one to spot. :smiley:

Never mind, it may happen to the best of us. :smiley: :wink:

Sure. Well, if we want to be technical, simple absolution rids of a False Gift that was bestowed by a human Infernalist with Forsaken duration Method and Power (Noble's Parma on the exact ones). As it concerns a False gift given by an demonic blessing at birth (i.e. a Virtue you buy at character creation normally) IIRC it requires asking the priest to dispexorcise el the False Gift specifically.

The point is correct, I was just rather oblivious of it since I tend to play characters that would rather fireball priests than asking absolutions from them. :smiling_imp:

YMMV. The way I read the RAW bit I quoted, it is plainly implied that the character has a fair bit of control on the effects of the ritual, as much as to choose the basic type of faerie anyway.

It depends if your immortal state makes you immune to Warping or not, since you need a MuAn (Co) spell active all the time to keep a human form.

Wrong fruit. You wanted the Gift, not a Might score ... which may or may not actually grant immortality.

Thank y'all for the loads of illumination, and for guiding me to read Ancient Magic (fun book!)

Sorry, you lost me here. I thought we had shifted to discuss the merits and drawbacks of becoming immortal from eating the fruits of the Tree of Life. I dop the point from confusion.