The Gift

What, precisely is The Gift?

Can a Magi lose The Gift? How?

Could The Gift be given to someone?

Could a Magi use original research, lab research, a whole lotta vis, or a really powerful spell to give someone The Gift?

Has a plot every been explored (published?) where a Magi started his own covenant with the PRIMARY aim of finding the gifted to bring them into his covenant? Has a spell ever been written up for finding all gifted in an area (Town, Valley, Country, or Etc)?? 

Has a plot, or module, ever been published where a Magi tries (or succeeds) in making his own Grogs Gifted??

The ability to learn supernatural abilities aligned with the magic realm. For more details, I guess we may have to way Realms of Power : Magic.

Yes. A major uncomprehended Perdo Vim Twilight could destroy a magus's Gift. As can, explicitely, the Criamon "Golden Cider" mystery power.

There are at least two ways listed in Ancient Magic. They aren't readily available to Hermetic magi.

That will take some major original research. Integrating Fertility Magic (from Ancient Magic) is an option.

None I am aware of.

I'm treating "Gift detection" spells as a specific application of "magus detection". Since my players haven't yet tried such spell in any meaningful way, I haven't decided whether to make it base level 10 (residue magnitude 0) or 15 (residue magnitude -1) for characters without any supernatural abilities.

One of our maga tried it on her daughters, but she couldn't succeed because of her Restriction (not on children) so the point was moot.

There are some notes on the topic in the chapter on Fertility Magic. As far as I know, that's about it.

What Precisely is the Gift?

In game terms, The Gift allows your character to learn Supernatural abilities. It is also required to take Hermetic Virtues.

Can Magi Lose The Gift? How?

In addition to the possibilities mentioned by Fruny, the Incantation/Malediction guidelines from RoP: TI could be used to remove a Magi's gift, potentially forever (until he repents his sins).

Could The Gift be Given to Someone?

The Cult of Heroes societate (described in HoH: TL) has a spell which, supposedly, improves the chances of conceiving a Gifted child.

Fertility Magic as described in Ancient Magic is similar, but allows you to custom build the new character from the ground up! First though you must integrate the magical secrets of Mythic Europe's lost fertility cults into hermetic theory.

Demons can grant The Gift as a False Power (see RoP: TI) as can diabolists with Incantation/Diablerie. The False Gift gives the recipient all the benefits and liabilities of serving a fickle and implacibly evil entity.

Travelling to the Garden of Eden and eating the Fruit of Knowledge (also from Ancient Magic) provides all sorts of goodies! Including, but not limited to, The Gift.

Miracles, of course, can do anything! Provided that it is God's will...

The Gift, in mechanical terms, has been explained already.

In lore terms, it is, literally, like a gift from the divine that is applied to the magus' soul. So the gift, while magically aligned, is still from the divine.

Is there anything in canon to justify that? The power of the Magic realm over souls is well established (A magus in final twilight is out of reach any communication attempts, as with Heaven and Hell) and for all that souls must originate in the Divine, the Infernal can tamper with them despite being inferior to the Divine's power. As such, why not Magic too?

Note that is merely a theory hold up by some Hermetic scholars, not objective fact, and later RAW proves it wrong. As for many other lesser Limits of Hermetic magic proven to be limits of Hermetic theory by Mystery and Ancient Magic insights, it seems such scholars are sadly mistaking the limits of Bonisagus' theory with boundaries set by the Divine. Ancient Magic shows it is perfectly feasible to purposefully give a child any combination of non-Divine Supernatural and Hermetic Virtues, including the Gift, by integrating the techniques of Fertility Magic.

I was aware of Fertility Magic. What's the other ? :astonished: :question:

Do you mean eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge ? That's not a really feasible method for large-scale exploitation, since it requires sacrificing a whole animal species every time. Not to mention the little trouble of having your Essential nature turned to a intelligent, talking animal.

Not so. Having the False Gift binds the recipient to service of Hell no more than having any other Infernal Supernatural Virtue. I.e. not really. You can be born with it, through no fault of yours. The main liability of False Gift is that the owner does not suffer the Twilight, but its Infernal version, the Vituperation, which is way nastier. The only other side effect is that the subject's magic registers as Infernal to people with Divine detection powers, which is no biggie: people with Sense Holiness & Unholiness don't grow on trees. Having a flawed Gift as a birth defect is no Hermetic crime, anyway.

But bargaining with demons for them to give one to, say, your mundane child? :wink:


It still remains a way to give someone the Gift. Nothing was said about giving everyone the Gift. And if the Gift breeds true like Intelligence did in those who ate the Fruit of Knowledge, so much the better. Plus God gave man dominion over all the beasts, so they are yours to sacrifice anyway. All you have is one more reason to get in on the action early.

Hardly worse than turning into a Faerie. :wink:

There's plenty of humanoid faerie. :wink:

Oh, yes. But prove that years after the fact, Mr. Quaesitor. My apprentice, which also happens to be my blood child, happens to have a infernally-tainted Gift, what a sad event, because he was unwittingly born on Walspurgsnacht. It seems the tide of the Infernal aura that night was sufficient to taint his budding Gift.

Except that when you undergo the Transformation of the Body, you don't really control what you'll end up with. :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp: MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAH!

Nice try, Mr. Evil, but no: :stuck_out_tongue:

It seems there's plenty of control involved in the ritual to ensure you choose the kind of faerie you turn yourself into, much less something so basic as to remain a humanoid. Nice try, but parried. :stuck_out_tongue: :wink: :laughing:

Grumph. Kids, these days... :wink:

That's what InMe is for.

And mind-readings are the one legal investigative power that Quaesitors would love to have, but they don't. :stuck_out_tongue:

They can't use it without permission, true.

But why deny permission if you have nothing to hide?

Because the Q in question, or indeed perhaps the entire power and resource hungry Q covenant in the Tribunal, are my political enemies... and why would I ever let a political rival muck about with my mind?

I wouldn't of course... and who would blame me?

Because unwillingness to testify as to your own innocence sounds like the stance of a guilty man.

Perhaps, but that does not seem likely to fly as a convincing argument if you are called upon to provide testimony in a session of the Tribunal.

If you don't like a particular Quasitor casting the spell, then I'm sure the Tribunal will be able to provide another caster.

Ah yes.. the ever popular "if you are innocent, you should be happy to yield your legal rights to the government when they ask. Only the guilty actually /use/ their legal rights to self protection" argument. Whee...

How about....I have lots of secrets from other magi and I have no reason to render myself subject to the mind reading of another magus just because they claim they are only going to look for some particular fact and not my magical secrets, personal peccadillos, or other stuff that is none of their business.

If you don't have any evidence except some spell...which no one else can verify is actually working since there are a variety of ways to mess with it or even tell for certain that the magus casting it isn't casting some variant..... then you don't have a case and can rant all you want.

Right to privacy is pretty close to the defining right of the Order... it is either equal to or a close second to the Parma Magica as a reason magi actually join. I really doubt that most magi are going to say "hmmm, sure, lets just give the Quaesitors the power to probe our minds and secrets". Its all but antithetical to the world view of most magi...

There really are three primary reasons I dislike casual use of Intellego magics in hermetic investigations. Two are IC one is OOC.

Firstly I prefer a view of the order that is a bit more political and mutually untrusting. Including the Qs. Some people seem to act as if and view them much as a modern policeman and with a similar degree of immediate trust. I think that overlooks a lot of the undertones of mistrust and worries of Qs seeking to dominate their local tribunals and/or the Order at large.

Following through with that is the direct line of thinking that... I don't necessarily think that it is ICly normal to trust any given Q in any given circumstance. I tend to view the 'average' Order members opinion of them as a group to be kind of 'love-hate'... where they think it is necessary to have a position/function like them... but worry over them trying to have too much power. So I think the restricting of magical investigation is a part of that and thus don't think there should be a stigma attached to refusing it. Heck... I tend to think that at least direct application of such magics should tend to be rather taboo.

Now that said it does somewhat differ from the Tribunal Procedure writeup from true lineages at least in the bit in applying such magics to verify all facts before a case is presented. While I am in favor of the legal principle of the facts being established before the case is presented ( because I think it 'very' in period and flavorful ) I obviously am not in favor of the scrying bit.

That said I do tend to think gathering information by indirect means isn't a violation... though that is subject to interpretation and the power of the vote as well.

OOCly I think constant and/or free applications of these mechanisms tends to be bad for stories... especially of the intrigue and deception based types.

And I wouldn't have anything against stating my innocence. Just... I wouldn't allow you to be casting anything on me while I did so. :wink:

Having sworn to abide by Tribunal decisions, you might not have a choice. Furthermore, Quaesitores may well take the risk to cast that spell anyway and work out justification with the Tribunal itself.

Infernal Might Makes Right.